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255 points tbruckner | 20 comments | | HN request time: 1.249s | source | bottom
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superkuh[dead post] ◴[] No.37420475[source]
[flagged]
1. sbierwagen ◴[] No.37420490[source]
M2 Mac Studio with 192gb of ram is US$5,599 right now.
replies(3): >>37420616 #>>37420693 #>>37427799 #
2. ◴[] No.37420616[source]
3. piskov ◴[] No.37420725[source]
You do understand that you can connect thunderbolt external storage (not just usb3 one)?
replies(1): >>37420784 #
4. diffeomorphism ◴[] No.37420784{3}[source]
That does not really make 1tb of non-upgradable storage in a $5k+ device any less ridiculous though.
replies(1): >>37420864 #
5. yumraj ◴[] No.37420789[source]
It’s not useless.

It seems a Thunderbolt/USB4 external NVME enclosure can do about 2500-3000 MB/s which is about half of internal SSD. So not at all bad. It’ll just add an additional few tens of seconds while loading the model. Totally manageable.

Edit: in fact this is the proper route anyway since it allows you to work with huge model and intermediate FP16/FP32 files while quantizing. Internal storage, regardless of how much, will run out quickly.

replies(1): >>37420889 #
6. yumraj ◴[] No.37420864{4}[source]
That is true, but a whole separate discussion.

It applies to RAM too. My 32GB Mac Studio seemed pretty good before the LLMs.

7. superkuh ◴[] No.37420889{3}[source]
>Internal storage, regardless of how much, will run out quickly.

This only applies to Macs and Mac-a-likes. Actual desktop PCs have many SATA ports and can store reasonable amounts of data without the crutch of external high latency storage making things iffy. I say this as someone with TBs of llama models on disk and I do quantization myself (sometimes).

BTW my computer cost <$900 w/17TB of storage currently and can run up to 34B 5bit llm. I could spend $250 more to upgrade to 128GB of DDR4 2666 ram and run the 65B/70B but 180B is out of the range. You do have to spend big money for that.

replies(4): >>37421057 #>>37421079 #>>37421096 #>>37422593 #
8. bananapub ◴[] No.37420958[source]
> gets price wrong

> is corrected

> pivots to some weird rant about 1TB of extremely high performance flash being "useless"

wouldn't it have saved time to just not post either of these comments?

replies(2): >>37421235 #>>37421807 #
9. andromeduck ◴[] No.37421057{4}[source]
Who TF is still using SATA with SSDs?!
10. yumraj ◴[] No.37421079{4}[source]
We’re talking about 192GB of GPU accessible memory here.

Or are you comparing with CPU inference? In which case apples-oranges.

How much do GPUs with 192GB of RAM cost?

Edit: also I think (unverified) very very few systems have multiple PCI 3/4 NVME slots. There are companies with PCI cards that can take NVMEs but that’ll in itself cost, without NVMEs, more than your $900 system.

replies(1): >>37421909 #
11. LTL_FTC ◴[] No.37421096{4}[source]
“external USB3 SSD... slowly” so which is it? Sata ports aren’t exactly faster than usb3. If you want speed you need pcie drives. Not sata. Thunderbolt is a great solution. Plus, my network storage sustains 10Gb networking. There are other avenues
12. oefrha ◴[] No.37421235{3}[source]
Note to other commenters: a simple “sorry, I was wrong” is more graceful and less embarrassing.
13. acdha ◴[] No.37421807{3}[source]
Yeah, I flagged that because it’s basically indistinguishable from trolling. All it’s going to do is distract from the actual thread topic - nobody is going to learn something useful.
replies(1): >>37422339 #
14. ErneX ◴[] No.37421852[source]
You can plug an NVME thunderbolt caddy instead, it won’t reach a good NVME SSD top speeds but it will hover around 2800MB/s r+w.

Its internal SSD at 1TB or greater capacity is at least twice as fast.

15. superkuh ◴[] No.37421909{5}[source]
Yes, CPU inference. For llama.cpp with Apple M1/M2 the GPU inference (via metal) is about 5x faster than CPU for text generation and about the same speed for prompt processing. Not insignificant but not giant either.

You generally can't hook up large storage drives to nvme. Those are all tiny flash storage. I'm not sure why you brought it up.

replies(1): >>37422034 #
16. yumraj ◴[] No.37422034{6}[source]
> You generally can't hook up large storage drives to nvme. Those are all tiny flash storage.

What’s your definition of large?

2TB and 4TB NVME are not tiny. You can even buy 8TB NVMEs, though those are more expensive and IMHO not worth it for this use case.

2TB NVMEs are $60-$100 right now.

You can attach several of those via Thunderbolt/USB4 enclosures providing 2500-3000 MB/s

17. GeekyBear ◴[] No.37422593{4}[source]
> Actual desktop PCs have many SATA ports

How many of those PCs have 10 Gigabit Ethernet by default? You can set up fast networked storage in any size you like and share it with many computers, not just one.

18. acdha ◴[] No.37423503{5}[source]
Dude, just admit you were wrong. This is just painful - especially as other people are pointing out that this is a hard number to beat.
19. acchow ◴[] No.37424782{5}[source]
I don't really agree. This is a desktop machine so it will be staying put. It has thunderbolt 4 which can exceed 3GB/s (24Gbps) on external SSDs. Don't think that expansion is useless
20. catchnear4321 ◴[] No.37427799[source]
i really can’t afford comments like this.