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137 points pg_1234 | 8 comments | | HN request time: 1.002s | source | bottom
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lionkor ◴[] No.37271090[source]
> While the average American is lucky to get 11 vacation days

WHAT? Does that count sick days as well, or is that a myth?

Here in Germany, I get 30 vacation days per calendar year, plus any sick days, and thats fairly normal.

Edit: Sure the absolute salaries here are lower, but the cost of living is vastly different and the social support structures and healthcare are different, too. That should definitely be kept in mind.

I dont need to drive my car a lot, because my city is fully walkable/bikeable, and thats not a super rare thing here. There are a lot of factors.

I feel vacation days are just a basic requirement for happiness, whereas being rich maybe isnt

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cloogshicer ◴[] No.37271175[source]
Exactly.

I live in a big European city. You basically don't need a car - pretty much anything within the city is reachable in about 30min, and public transit is comfy.

Also, I have a public transit ticket that allows me to travel the entire country for a year, which only cost about 1000€.

Yes, salaries are lower, but I also don't have to save anything to get my kids through university, or keep emergency funds for health issues.

Also, I can't just get fired without cause. And if I do get laid off, I have 3 months of grace period, plus potentially years of unemployment money.

Also, the government even pays for certain courses so I can find employment again.

The social system in Europe is amazing.

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emptysongglass ◴[] No.37271333[source]
Salaries are so much lower than our American counterparts you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age, which is increasing. Our economic growth across the EU is stagnant. These are not things to be celebrated.
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maccard ◴[] No.37271564[source]
While all the sentences you wrote are technically correct, your point is wrong.

> you'll be working right up until our government mandated retirement age

As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working. Health insurance for a couple (assuming you can get it and it covers anything that you might have wrong) is about the same cost as my mortage here in the UK.

It's also not a government mandated retirement age, it's the age that the government will provide financial support to you. It's feasible for someone on a median income in the UK (where I live) to retire before they hit 66, as long as they prepare. Someone making a median income in the US is unlikely to be able to.

> which is increasing

Again, technically true but also misleading. It's not just steadily increasing, there's only so far it can go. The equivalent age in the US is already 70, fwiw.

> Our economic growth across the EU is stagnant

The horror. Personally, I'll take stagnant economic growth over statistics that get pumped by tech firms that are richer than entire countries in europe - Microsoft and Apple are individually worth more than Italy.

> These are not things to be celebrated.

US cost of living is skyrocketing (they're behind us at the moment, but their COL was already higher so the comparison is tough). Inequality levels in the US are still wildly higher than anywhere in europe (even the UK), the US has massive social problems that don't exist on the same scale here, etc.

These are not things to be celebrated either.

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1. armitron ◴[] No.37271640[source]
> As will an american, unless they're going to go without healthcare? Unless you're doing some _wild_ saving, paying for health insurance as you age is going to necessitate working.

In the US, most highly-skilled senior engineers will be multi-millionaires in their 40s which means that they can immediately retire and pay out of pocket for private health insurance covering the entire family without even making a dent on their principal. Even if that wasn't an option, one can get health insurance via one's spouse or work a few hours part-time for an employer that provides it.

I retired in my 40s and spent the last 10 years living in both the US and multiple European countries (with a lot of time spent in Germany as I have family there). While I've so far enjoyed living in Europe, the worsening downward slope in quality of life is more obvious here than in the US. Unrestrained immigration is a big problem that's going to get a lot worse in the next decades and is already rapidly eroding the much praised European social safety nets.

Ultimately, US offers optionality which means that one isn't chained like a slave to a grossly inefficient disintegrating socialist state for the rest of one's life.

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2. flohofwoe ◴[] No.37271667[source]
> Most capable senior engineers...

What about the less capable though? Do we just forget they exist?

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3. maccard ◴[] No.37271690[source]
> One has optionality and isn't chained like a slave to a grossly inefficient socialist state for the rest of one's life.

I don't think this conversation is worth continuing if you consider the US a bastion of freedom and the entirety of europe being entrapped to socialism.

4. h0l0cube ◴[] No.37271723[source]
> In the US, most highly-skilled senior engineers will be multi-millionaires in their 40s

I don't think workers' rights movements and government policies that promote said rights are really centered around uplifting highly-skilled senior engineers. Certainly if you have in-demand talent, migrate to whatever country pays the most for it. You have that luxury

5. maccard ◴[] No.37271799[source]
Or the capable engineers who can't/don't want to up and move to thousands of miles away from their lives.
6. janosdebugs ◴[] No.37271957[source]
Dunno, I've met several senior engineers whom I would consider highly skilled and while they were well off, it didn't look like they are multi-millionaires. Also, given the trend of firing senior engineers and hiring only juniors lately, I wouldn't count on that trend continuing.
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7. ohgodplsno ◴[] No.37271991[source]
>engineers

Alright, very small proportion of the population

>senior engineers

even smaller

>highly-skilled senior engineers

I cannot even begin to tell you how small of a proportion it is. By the way, you forgot a factor:

>highly-skilled senior engineers that happen to live in the right area (read: SF or NYC) and that are in the right domain

cool cool cool, so a few thousand people per generation can retire comfortably at 40. I'm sure the other 300 million of americans are happy to hear about that. Anything as long as you got yours, right ?

8. mmmmmbop ◴[] No.37272181[source]
I've noticed the opposite trend. Right now, it's hard to find a position as a junior, whereas seniors are still in demand.