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OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

(asahilinux.org)
512 points simjue | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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kytazo ◴[] No.36213178[source]
Its been more than a year I'm running asahi on my macbook air and I can't stress how grateful I feel for enjoying such wonderful freedom.

I don't feel like ever going back to x86 to be honest, at this point there is nothing lacking or unable to run and when the neural engine drivers come online now that the GPU is starting to mature people will be able to juice out every last bit of computation this machine is capable of.

For the record, I've switched to the edge branch a couple of months ago and honestly I noticed no actual difference in my day-to-day tasks which is really telling about how powerful even the M1 is when it can handle software rendering in such an effortless manner coupled with anything else running.

Really thank god for asahi being a thing.

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imiric ◴[] No.36214314[source]
> at this point there is nothing lacking or unable to run

Sure there is. You just haven't run into it yourself.

Faster, cooler and more power efficient hardware is great. I just don't think that it makes up for depending on a small team of volunteers to resolve all hardware issues in an ecosystem hostile to OSS, which might break at any point Apple decides to do so.

And the incompatibilities with ARM are not negligible. If all your software runs on it, great. If not, good luck depending on yet another translation layer.

I'm sticking with my slow, hot and power-hungry x86 machines with worse build quality for the foreseeable future. The new AMD mobile chips are certainly in the ballpark of what Apple silicon can do, so I won't be missing much.

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psanford ◴[] No.36214810[source]
> depending on a small team of volunteers to resolve all hardware issues in an ecosystem hostile to OSS, which might break at any point Apple decides to do so

You are describing how most OSS software has been developed. I don't see how this is any different than early linux when no hardware manufacturers had any interest in supporting it.

A lot of the work that the asahi team is doing is just fixing Arm issues in the linux kernel (and sadly user space). That work will benefit everyone using Arm systems, not just folks running asahi on Apple hardware.

Its good for there to be more hardware architecture competition! I'm glad I can run my server workloads on the Arm servers in AWS that are 20% cheaper than the equivalent x86 machines. I'm glad that I can run the software I like (linux) on legitimately nice hardware (m2 air). You can make different decisions on what architectures are best suited for your needs, but the competition in the market improves the options and prices for everyone.

I've been using Asahi since the fall of 2022. When I first started using it a lot of software was broken because of bugs in that software that had never been exposed before (specifically around page sizes larger than 4k). All of that software has now been fixed. Support for linux/arm will only continue to improve as more people use it.

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imiric ◴[] No.36217181[source]
> I don't see how this is any different than early linux when no hardware manufacturers had any interest in supporting it.

It's very different. Hardware manufacturers in the 90s were incentivized to support Linux to expand their customer base. A trillion-dollar corporation has no incentive to sell their hardware to a niche of a niche of technical users who are not part of their software ecosystem.

Another major difference is that Asahi is a small team of dedicated volunteers who want to run Linux on their Macs. They're a niche intersection of Linux hackers and Apple fans. Unsupported hardware in the 90s typically had a much larger customer base and group of hackers willing to spend time adding supporting for it.

Even worse: Apple can decide at any point to make their hardware much more difficult to support. Newer models or firmware updates might break things. Being at the whims of a corporation that is the antithesis of F/LOSS to run Linux on their hardware doesn't inspire confidence.

> Its good for there to be more hardware architecture competition!

> Support for linux/arm will only continue to improve as more people use it.

Agreed. I'm glad that Asahi exists. But we've had ARM Linux distros for decades now. What Asahi is doing is specifically to support Apple hardware. Some improvements will trickle out to improve general ARM support, but this points out the gargantuan task they're actually up against. Not only do they need to reverse engineer the hardware, they have to resolve all software issues with Linux and ARM. My hat's off to them. The willpower, patience and skills required to wade through the absolute mountain of issues must be astronomical. Yet this is also part of my concern; how long can a developer keep the motivation and sanity to swim against the current?

It's great that Asahi works for you and everyone else. I'm just pointing out why it will likely never be my choice for any serious work.

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1. rsynnott ◴[] No.36224575[source]
This feels... fairly ahistorical.

> Hardware manufacturers in the 90s were incentivized to support Linux to expand their customer base.

Outside of some server niches (though even then, mostly not til the noughties), not really. You generally weren't looking at much first-party support at all in the 90s.

> Unsupported hardware in the 90s typically had a much larger customer base and group of hackers willing to spend time adding supporting for it.

This... is really not the case. The M1/2 Macs are _close_ to being one platform with something on the order of a hundred million units out there. Hardware in the 90s was pretty diverse; if you wanted support for your video card, say, there might be twenty chipsets out there, with maybe fifty manufacturers. Later on, there was a fair bit of consolidation, with virtually every computer, say, ending up with pretty much the same sound card chipset, but not in the 90s.

> Apple can decide at any point to make their hardware much more difficult to support. Newer models or firmware updates might break things.

Yeah, again, that _very_ much happened in the 90s.

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2. imiric ◴[] No.36249557[source]
> You generally weren't looking at much first-party support at all in the 90s.

I wasn't making a historical claim, but a philosophical one. Hardware manufacturers in the 90s had that incentive, if they wanted to pursue it. To Apple, a trillion dollar corporation, selling a negligible amount of laptops to a niche crowd of tech enthusiasts who will never become part of their software ecosystem is just not worth the effort to even pursue.

> This... is really not the case. The M1/2 Macs are _close_ to being one platform with something on the order of a hundred million units out there.

Right. And how many of those buyers are also Linux hackers willing to dedicate their time to work on projects like Asahi? How many of those would even be willing to run Linux instead of macOS? We're talking about an extremely small community of users compared even to the small Linux community in the 90s.

> Yeah, again, that _very_ much happened in the 90s.

Never said it didn't. Except that Apple is known for locking down their products, so the good faith they're showing now with leaving Macs relatively open can disappear at any moment.