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mjg59 ◴[] No.35845088[source]
The pervasiveness of secure boot has genuinely made things difficult for attackers - there'd have been no reason for the Black Lotus bootkit to jump through all the hoops it did if it weren't for secure boot, and the implementation of UEFI secure boot does make it possible to remediate in a way that wouldn't be the case without it.

But secure boot at the OS level (in the PC world, at least) is basically guaranteed to give users the ability to enable or disable it, change the policy to something that uses their own keys, and ensure that the system runs the software they want. When applied to firmware, that's not the case - if Boot Guard (or AMD's equivalent, Platform Secure Boot) is enabled, you don't get to replace your firmware with code you control. There's still a threat here (we've seen firmware-level attacks for pre-Boot Guard systems), but the question is whether the security benefit is worth the loss of freedom. I wrote about this a while back (https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/58424.html) but I lean towards thinking that in most cases the defaults are bad, and if users want to lock themselves into only using vendor firmware that's something that users should be able to opt into.

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Dalewyn ◴[] No.35847323[source]
>the question is whether the security benefit is worth the loss of freedom.

At least as far as Benjamin Franklin would tell you: No.

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KyeRussell[dead post] ◴[] No.35848234[source]
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1. jq-r ◴[] No.35849559[source]
Not OP, and I agree that freedom quote is definitely an overreaction in this sense.

Allow me to go off a bit of a tangent. I find this call for freedom much better than what is beaten into children/students in our schools in a small European country, namely Croatia. It is obedience, rote memorization, compliance, anti-individualism, hopelessness, anti-leadership and dependance. Ask any citizen over here what freedom even is, and people would stare at you blankly because frankly, very few would even know how to try to describe it.

For a normal citizen over here, it means what Government allows you to do. And now in my fourth decade in this country it is less and less. People are afraid to speak up because the Goverment is the biggest employer by far. Every forth citizen works for it (directly or indirectly). The previous generation could at least be always safe to have a home so if they get fired, they can try to get a job somewhere else. My generation (and the generation after me) have no economic freedom. I bet 99% of homes bought are with mortgage, so those are all owned by the banks, so people can lose those very easily. And they do. This is not America where jobs are like a revolving doors. People losing jobs here are very concerning thing and getting employed again is difficult. No wonder young people are emigrating en masse because they cannot afford anything here. At least somewhere else they have a chance at a normal life. Here, they'll be almost slaves their whole lives.

People here also don't know how to protest and self-organize, so protests are very rare. It also doesn't help that police is very active in supressing any kind of "undesirable" political activity. As my ex neigbour said (now deceased) who was a chief of regional branch of secret police: "everyone is doing something illegal, if you stick your head in certain matters it will get chopped, and there won't be newspaper articles about it."

When the government enacts laws to remove some remaining freedoms and rights, this goes here even without a whimper. Its not even a headline news. It is a non-news. "Well at least they didn't take away my TV, so all is fine." is a bit of a sarcastic reply from an average citizen here.

Just wanted to put this into a perspective when one would claim that Americans are over sensitive on "freedom fetishism". That's fine in my view, millions of people died for that freedom. For the most of the rest of the world, freedom probably just means something only rich people can afford.