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    Mormons Make Great FBI Recruits

    (www.atlasobscura.com)
    80 points churchill | 18 comments | | HN request time: 1.56s | source | bottom
    1. bell-cot ◴[] No.35773689[source]
    Even 150 years ago, Mormons had quite the reputation for both fighting for ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Battalion ) and fighting against ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_War ) the U.S. Army.
    replies(2): >>35774691 #>>35774694 #
    2. elcritch ◴[] No.35774691[source]
    Visiting some of the historical museums I found there was a, brief, time when the Mormons tried making their own script and empire. I believe it was called "Deseret". Later they tried to get it accepted as a state.

    Interestingly, I've found a lot of parallels between early Islam and early Mormonism. Both of their leaders had similar tendencies and both were evicted from their original location where they claimed their new Zion. Though Mohammed was more successful in retaking Mecca whilst the Mormons were forced out of Missouri (1).

    In no specific order:

    - Prophet's with dubious histories prior to their revelation - Both given new revelations from an angel - Both claim a that the Christians or Jews had corrupted the original gospels - Focus on political power early on - Polygamy prominent among early leaders - No alcohol - Strong focus on certain forms of "purity"

    1: https://www.sos.mo.gov/archives/resources/mormon.asp

    replies(5): >>35774844 #>>35775229 #>>35775565 #>>35776211 #>>35777267 #
    3. jacurtis ◴[] No.35774694[source]
    Since we are adding acts of Mormon rebellion and killing. It is worth also adding Mountain Meadows Massacre to the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_Meadows_Massacre

    tldr: 120 emigrants were traveling by wagon train towards California, passing through Utah. They set up camp south of Salt Lake in a meadow for the night and woke up to being surrounded by the Mormon militia, painted as Native Americans who then opened fire on them, killing 120 men, women, and children. Their goal was to frame Native Americans of the massacre.

    Mormons did spare any child under the age of 8 because Mormon Doctrine states that children under 8 are innocent and they were taken and raised into Mormonism.

    replies(4): >>35777121 #>>35777277 #>>35781559 #>>35783193 #
    4. ss108 ◴[] No.35774844[source]
    Not really sure how Mohammed can be said to have a "dubious" history. If you don't want to believe the traditional accounts, that's fair, but late antiquity was not a golden age of objective recorded history lol, so there isn't much better info to go off otherwise. I would refer people to r/AcademicQuran on issues of early Islamic history.

    I can't say whether Smith had a "dubious" history, but I'm not inclined to take this view because people think it's ok to bigoted and dismissive of the Church of LDS, and I think it's unfair.

    Also polygamy was part of pre-Islamic Arabia, whereas it was contrary to custom and law in the context in which the LDS Church developed. Comparison on this point is superficial.

    replies(1): >>35777765 #
    5. yamazakiwi ◴[] No.35775229[source]
    Many early apostles including Brigham Young, and even Joseph Smith, drank alcohol.
    6. thesuperbigfrog ◴[] No.35775565[source]
    >> tried making their own script and empire. I believe it was called "Deseret":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deseret_alphabet

    It was a phonetically correct alphabet for English.

    In case you are unfamiliar, in many languages, the language is written exactly as it is spoken. For example, in Spanish and Italian, words are written exactly as they are pronounced. If you can read the word, you can pronounce it though you might not know the meaning.

    Children in English-speaking places will usually have to study "spelling" where they learn how to correctly spell words.

    Deseret alphabet was pronounced exactly as it was written which shows which spoken accents the speakers had.

    replies(2): >>35776165 #>>35778945 #
    7. nocoolnametom ◴[] No.35776165{3}[source]
    There's a restaurant in the Salt Lake city airport, White Horse Spirits and Kitchen, that features a large logo on their wall written in Deseret. Though, as you pointed out, it's technically a phonetic alphabet so the restaurant's sign technically says "W'hitey Horsey" which cracks me up every time I walk past it.
    8. lcnPylGDnU4H9OF ◴[] No.35776211[source]
    > their own script and empire ... Deseret

    On the empire topic, one might consider Utah. It was originally desired for the name to be Deseret and one of the two primary competing news organizations locally is called Deseret News[0]. In practice it's not really an empire (for all of the obvious reasons) but it's also kinda hard to ignore the influence that the church has on most of the population.

    [0] https://www.deseret.com/ I didn't know this was the domain until now. There you go, I guess.

    9. 542354234235 ◴[] No.35777121[source]
    To add, it wasn’t just opening fire and killing that many. They opened fire, lied siege, and prompted the settlers to surrender. Then executed everyone expect the few children younger than 8.
    10. hinkley ◴[] No.35777267[source]
    The Mormons own a pretty big chunk of Missouri where they believe Zion is. I think the idea is that when the End Times come, they'll be the ones doing the evicting.
    11. hinkley ◴[] No.35777277[source]
    False Flag operation and war crimes all before breakfast.
    replies(1): >>35778092 #
    12. ◴[] No.35778092{3}[source]
    13. selimthegrim ◴[] No.35778602{4}[source]
    Mohammad is a Shi'ite now? Is this like Muslims sacking Taxila before they existed?
    replies(1): >>35780182 #
    14. m348e912 ◴[] No.35778945{3}[source]
    After reading the deseret alphabet pronunciation guide, it took a second to get used to but I don't hate it.
    15. lvass ◴[] No.35780182{5}[source]
    Mohammad doesn't post at r/AcademicQuran.
    16. ss108 ◴[] No.35780509{4}[source]
    This is a stupid and bigoted comment that doesn't even make sense given that r/AcademicQuran is full of people citing secular academics.
    17. mythrwy ◴[] No.35781559[source]
    This did happen and it was egregious, but there is slightly more to the story (not that it makes it ok).

    Years ago in Arizona I worked with a guy who was a descendant of John D. Lee who was the ringleader and later executed for his role in this attack. Lee's Ferry over the Colorado river is named for him also. So I looked into John D Lee a bit.

    Here is his account:

    http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mountainmeadow...

    The people in the wagon train were believed to have been those who had burned the Mormons out in Missouri, and although it seems revenge is a more likely motive then fear, there may have been an element of both. At any rate it wasn't just bushwhacking random wagon trains as many passed through the territory at the time.

    I found Lee's account an interesting read and his grandson (or great grandson) looked very much like him.

    18. cjmcqueen ◴[] No.35783193[source]
    Lots of messy things at that time. For example, it was legal to kill a member of the church of Jesus Christ (i. e. Mormon ) in Missouri from 1838 to 1976. Doesn't make it right, but there were a lot of difficult relationships

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Extermination_Order