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1901 points l2silver | 45 comments | | HN request time: 1.661s | source | bottom

Maybe you've created your own AR program for wearables that shows the definition of a word when you highlight it IRL, or you've built a personal calendar app for your family to display on a monitor in the kitchen. Whatever it is, I'd love to hear it.
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sriram_malhar ◴[] No.35738249[source]
My MIL is 93, and the only tech she can really deal with is turning on the radio and TV and changing channels.

She is fond of music from old classics (from the 60's and earlier), so I hooked up a Raspberry PI with an FM transmitter and created her own private radio station. She tells me what songs she likes and I create different playlists that get broadcast on her station. It preserves the surprise element of radio, and there is nothing in there she doesn't like.

The tiny FM transmitter is surprisingly powerful. Her neighbours (of similar vintage) are very happy too, so their requests have also started coming in :)

EDIT: I wanted to add that I am the UI ... she doesn't get to choose the playlist. To make my life easier, I just created different playlists for different times of the day ... calm/spiritual/slower numbers in the early and late hours, peppy during the late morning and evening etc.

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1. quaintdev ◴[] No.35738575[source]
OP seems from India and AFAIK its illegal to transmit on FM frequencies without a license. I understand it might be low powered but theres a chance of Police coming knocking on the door. Whats worse is it might interfere with emergency services. There is a reason we have spoctrum licences.
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2. sriram_malhar ◴[] No.35738616[source]
I know. It is illegal in most parts of the world. I'm taking over a commercial FM channel that my MIL won't listen to, and the transmitter has about a 20m radius.

If the police come, I'll use the Constanza "Was that wrong?" defence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RvNS7JfcMM

replies(4): >>35738893 #>>35739337 #>>35740299 #>>35740703 #
3. jacquesm ◴[] No.35738864[source]
Yes, technically it is illegal. But I've seen all kinds of gizmos that would inject a signal into the FM band to allow the use of car stereos that didn't have an 'aux' input. At those power levels the FCC isn't going to be bothered unless someone lodges a complaint, and even then they'll have a hard time finding the source unless they're practically standing on top of it. OP may want to turn down the radiated power until it just works for his MIL but no longer for the neighbors.
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4. jacquesm ◴[] No.35738893[source]
I hope they don't know how to use Google and if they do that that is a pseudonym you're posting under here or you might be in bigger trouble than you started with ;)

Anyway, cool to see you hack this, maybe try to tweak the power levels a bit so the neighbors don't have a reason to talk about it.

replies(2): >>35738980 #>>35739020 #
5. exitb ◴[] No.35738922[source]
It is Hacker News after all. And that's probably like jaywalking of RF violations. I'd be more afraid of the copyright people.
replies(2): >>35739021 #>>35748577 #
6. Mistletoe ◴[] No.35738934[source]
If we ever have a world apocalypse and I’m alone, I know I can at least conjure one companion by suggesting I would use spectrum without a license and a ham enthusiast will appear.
replies(1): >>35739046 #
7. ktzar ◴[] No.35738980{3}[source]
The FCC allows personal FM transmitters to operate with a maximum power output of 250 microvolts per meter at a distance of 3 meters. Other countries are more permissive, so this is not a problem. As long as you don't interfere with anyone and emit in a band that's not used in the area, it's perfectly fine.
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8. Cypher ◴[] No.35739020{3}[source]
I'll tell them it was me to protect Spartacus.
9. acatton ◴[] No.35739021[source]
Where I live, this is absolutely not the jaywalking of RF violations. In Germany, if it is proven that your signal was potentially interfering with emergency services, you will be liable for any damage to victims in civil courts. And if somebody dies in your area because the emergency services couldn't get there on time, you will be criminally charged for "negligent manslaughter."

I wouldn't play at all with non-approved RF frequencies personally.

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10. implements ◴[] No.35739046[source]
<Dusts off Ham Licence> Anyone can use amateur frequencies in a genuine “no other communication options available” emergency, if I remember the regulations correctly.

Edit: “§ 97.403 Safety of life and protection of property. No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radio communication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.”

11. _thisdot ◴[] No.35739137[source]
Worth noting that there already exists a product in the Indian market by a big music label that addresses this exact issue. I’ve bought my grandfather one of those and he’s very happy with it!
replies(1): >>35739946 #
12. vonseel ◴[] No.35739144{4}[source]
I was curious what kind of range that might have, so I put what you said into chatgpt and asked what the range of a typical car or home stereo would be, and it gave me this (not sure if it's correct). FWIW, much less than 20 miles, haha.

-- The maximum power output of a personal FM transmitter allowed by the FCC is 250 microvolts per meter at a distance of 3 meters. The range of the transmitter depends on various factors such as terrain, obstructions, and interference.

Assuming ideal conditions, such as no obstructions or interference, the range of the transmitter can be calculated using the inverse square law. This law states that the strength of a signal decreases with the square of the distance from the source.

At a distance of 3 meters, the signal strength would be 250 microvolts per meter. At a distance of 6 meters, the signal strength would be 62.5 microvolts per meter (250/4). At a distance of 9 meters, the signal strength would be 27.8 microvolts per meter (250/9).

Typical car and household stereos have a sensitivity of about 2 microvolts per meter. Using this sensitivity value, we can calculate the range of the transmitter for these devices.

For a car stereo, the transmitter would have a range of about 26 meters (square root of 250/2). For a household stereo, the transmitter would have a range of about 63 meters (square root of 250/0.5).

However, in reality, the actual range of the transmitter may be shorter due to various factors such as interference and obstructions.

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13. srcreigh ◴[] No.35739178{4}[source]
Makes sense. I’ve seen Bluetooth fm dongles for cars to this effect. The dongle connects to your phone on Bluetooth and the old car can listen to your Spotify via the radio.
14. Nition ◴[] No.35739179{5}[source]
> FWIW, much less than 20 miles

For the record I'm sure OP meant his has a range of 20 metres

15. casmaxima ◴[] No.35739276{5}[source]
sbcl: (* (sqrt (/ 250 2)) 3) => 33.54 meters, the factor that amplifies distance is the square root of the factor of signal strength.
16. eastern ◴[] No.35739337[source]
Yeah no one will bother with such a low-powered device. I used an in-car bluetooth-to-FM tranmitter bought from Amazon India for years. They've been sold openly since forever. Like this one: https://www.amazon.in/Portronics-AUTO-10-Bluetooth-Car/dp/B0...
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17. sigg3 ◴[] No.35739486{4}[source]
No need to be rude.

As someone who's worked in telecom for a number of years, the fines for broadcasting I've seen issued to individuals are insane. Not just radio but wireless amplification too. Different European country though.

Always check the legislation in the country of operation. Emergency frequencies are held sacred by the powers that be.

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18. 6510 ◴[] No.35739549{3}[source]
like the Indians said, you want to buy the sky too?
19. detaro ◴[] No.35739669{3}[source]
In Germany (like afaik all the EU), you can also freely buy and use small low-power FM transmitters for exactly the use case of sending your own music to radios...
20. jeswin ◴[] No.35739716[source]
But quaintdev is right in that Indian Police for some reason takes this somewhat seriously. For highway patrol, I suspect it's boredom and this gives them something to chase. I remember in the late 90s when I was in college, the police showed up a couple of times when students were transmitting from one of the hostels. They'd let it go, but they did show up.
replies(1): >>35739803 #
21. RobotToaster ◴[] No.35739770{3}[source]
If a low power FM transmitter on commercial frequencies can interfere with your emergency services, you may have bigger problems. IIRC they have their own specific frequencies.
22. jacquesm ◴[] No.35739803{3}[source]
At what levels of power was this?

I suspect the OPs transmitter is hard to detect even at close (< 100 meters > 30 meters) range. Anything more powerful and you would definitely attract attention.

23. sriram_malhar ◴[] No.35739946[source]
Do you mean the saregama Caravaan? If so, I bought her one of those and it just didn't cut the mustard.

The built-in collection either didn't have songs that she liked (from the '40s), or they weren't clustered together, or were mixed up with other songs.

I could load a flash disk with her playlist to plug into that player, but it wouldn't know what to play at what time (calm songs in the early and late hours, peppier numbers on other days, festival specific numbers on some days). This was a big deal. I can even change the playlist from elsewhere (a script automatically mirrors the playlist that I maintain on a server)

Bluetooth streaming is possible with the device, but not an option for my MIL ... that would require her to learn to use a cellphone.

24. Glemotooo ◴[] No.35740095{3}[source]
"RF violations"

In germany its also legal to use plenty of bands in the RF Spectrcum with up to 750Watts (and potential more).

We are also allowed to do CB Funk in Channels 1-40 without anything and up to 80/85 (forgot details) when you register with Germany.

So your statement reads more like you are not allowed to do anything in germany. Its hard to believe to disturb stable systems just because someone is doing a little bit of FM on some known frequencies.

25. mdip ◴[] No.35740299[source]
... I've always been amazed how often "Was that wrong?" works.

I guess I shouldn't be. Even letting them know you were fully aware you were breaking the law, most people would see its intended purpose -- to bring a little peace and comfort to a very old woman -- and have their own compassion kick in.

YMMV but I'm guessing you'd hear something along the lines of "Oh,... well,... (shuffles feet) ... just turn it off, then". Many of us have elderly people in our lives we wish we could provide some comfort to and most of us know we're headed there (if we're lucky to live that long). You know, assuming your 20m radius FM transmitter didn't, say, cause some cataclysmic event/knock emergency services offline for several city blocks, etc.

Put another way, while some police actually will pull you over and write you a ticket for going a couple of miles (km) per hour over the speed limit, most won't waste the brain power/physical energy/thermal paper to bother enforcing it.

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26. mdip ◴[] No.35740479[source]

  > Yes, *technically* it is illegal.
Oh how many phrases start "Yes, technically" in my life.

The law is an interesting beast. I know nothing about the law in India as it relates to FM band transmitters but I suspect that the law predates the common availability of adapters that one might use in ones car to add an input to a stereo that lacks such a highly technical circular hole for such purposes[0]. Once these devices gained wide adoption due to both their utility and -- more generally -- the fact that operating one is usually so benign that they can be difficult to discover let alone actually cause enough interference to warrant them to be seized.

The intention of the law was to prevent someone from operating a pirate radio station/give exclusivity to a single license-holder for that frequency. Since these devices don't violate the spirit of the law, the governing body finds it easier to carve out an informal exemption rather than explicitly write one in. It can also be tricky to correct a law that has a very valid reason for existing but may have cases where total enforcement isn't realistic[1].

The law may not have caught up to the reality on the ground and the legislatures answer to it is "enforce it when the interference is enough that someone notices." One might imagine a world where something akin to TV Detector-like Vans[2] drape the country-side in a dragnet to catch all of those pirate FM-input-devices but that usually only happens if there's a substantial amount of tax revenue to be gained ... to pay for the vans.

[0] I had one of these in the 90s (in the US, where it's not illegal if designed correctly) that connected my Discman to my ridiculously sad factory radio which lacked both external input and even a cassette deck.

[1] I do very little with regard to radio communication (if that isn't obvious) but I'd imagine most lawmakers do even less, so now you have to bring in experts to figure out "what's an acceptable amount of interference in this specific use case" and "how should a device like this be restricted." Not that government isn't famous for wildly wasting money or anything but I'd imagine the thinking is that it's not worth the effort to correct.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van

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27. maxerickson ◴[] No.35740585[source]
Technically, it's perfectly legal under FCC regulations.

https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/low-power-radio-general-info...

Looks like India doesn't permit it, but is looking at doing so (at least, for some purposes):

https://trai.gov.in/notifications/press-release/trai-release...

28. gilbetron ◴[] No.35740605[source]
Illegal in India maybe. In the US: "In the United States, Part 15 of the U.S. Federal Communications Commission rules specifies that no license is needed if range of the transmitter does not exceed 200 feet (61 meters), although the Part 15 rules specify that the field strength should not exceed 250 µV/m (48db) at 3 meters"

I haven't found the exact law in India, but looks like maybe it's legal for personal usage of FM provided power of transmitter is under 500 mW?

29. moooo99 ◴[] No.35740631{3}[source]
It literally took a single google search to find out that you’re wrong.

FM transmitting for private use is completely legal for UKW frequencies between 87.5 and 105 MHz and transmission powers lower than 50nW [1]. You can buy perfectly FM transmitters for your car, etch

[1] (German) https://www.autozeitung.de/fm-transmitter-bluetooth-nachrues...

30. 300bps ◴[] No.35740703[source]
I’ve had much better luck with 100% honesty. Just say you set up a 20m transmitter to improve the life of a 93 year old woman.

I bought a house in my very early 20s. Roommates of mine finished the third floor with no permits. Went to sell the house ten years later and the location it was in required a U&O inspection. My realtor told me to lie, apply for a permit and pretend I just did the work.

Instead I called the local building inspector and said, “Hello my name is xxx and I’m calling to confess.” He cracked up laughing, came to the house immediately to look at everything and told me I was fine.

31. getwiththeprog ◴[] No.35740729[source]
Post a reference to the legislation or its not real
32. sriram_malhar ◴[] No.35740750{3}[source]
Well put. Exactly my thoughts. And given my MIL's attitude towards any visitor, the cops will be plied with food and chai till they burst. They will forget what they came for :)
33. cptaj ◴[] No.35740791[source]
Its not that limited. Check out fm transmitters on amazon.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=fm+transmitter&ref=nb_sb_noss

This is what he means, not some bigger pirate radio situation

34. JKCalhoun ◴[] No.35740801{3}[source]
Ha ha, I must have pulled up along side you the other day.

Just kidding, I'm in the U.S. But more than a few times I have suddenly got Mexican musical content on my radio in the car when passing close to another car.

35. NelsonMinar ◴[] No.35741192[source]
Killjoy.
36. mindcrime ◴[] No.35742388{3}[source]
[0] I had one of these in the 90s (in the US, where it's not illegal if designed correctly) that connected my Discman to my ridiculously sad factory radio which lacked both external input and even a cassette deck.

Heh. I drive a 2002 Chevy Suburban (don't laugh, I have a strong aversion to spending money on new vehicles) and it lacks an AUX input, so to this day I use one of those low-power FM transmitter adapters to pipe my phone's audio output to the vehicle stereo. They are amazingly handy little gadgets.

replies(1): >>35742584 #
37. jonatron ◴[] No.35742584{4}[source]
When I had a cassette deck in my car, I added an AUX input by soldering a cable to a chip on the PCB, and running it out through the cassette slot.
replies(1): >>35746409 #
38. mometsi ◴[] No.35744631{3}[source]
What would happen if you delayed an ambulance responding to an emergency by jaywalking in front of it? Could you be charged if someone died as a result?
replies(1): >>35752132 #
39. schwartzworld ◴[] No.35746409{5}[source]
That's a product they sell. It looks like an audio cassette with an aux cord coming out of it. I used one for years in my old grand Marquis.
replies(1): >>35746806 #
40. jacquesm ◴[] No.35746806{6}[source]
That just wires the speaker output of the device to a set of coils sitting right in front of the tape playback head. GP did an end run around that by wiring straight into the trace in between the head pre-amp and the main amp.
41. rozab ◴[] No.35746873{3}[source]
I love these things, it's so simple and it's often a better UX than any car bluetooth provides. You also used to be able to buy aux adapters that went in your cassette deck!

edit: Halfords still stocks these! https://www.halfords.com/technology/mobile-phone-accessories...

42. hammyhavoc ◴[] No.35748577[source]
In the UK, if you break the law, they'll confiscate anything physically wired to it, computer included.
43. lostlogin ◴[] No.35750720{3}[source]
> I've always been amazed how often "Was that wrong?" works.

This is in line with Peelian principles of policing. It was explained to me by a policeman and it was fascinating. He had worked in the UK, Australia and New Zealand.

In his view, Australia was considerably harsher in its policing and NZ was at the other end of the spectrum, UK in the middle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles

44. whinvik ◴[] No.35751369[source]
I don't know if you are from India but our laws are so complicated that I am sure every moment we are breaking one or the other. If we constantly worried about which ones we are breaking we would never get anything done!
45. TobTobXX ◴[] No.35752132{4}[source]
In Switzerland they can (and often will) at least fine you if you neglect to dirve to the side when encountering traffic on a highway (to form a "Rettungsgasse"[0]) to allow emergency cars to pass in the middle.

[0]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rettungsgasse?wprov=sfla1