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1901 points l2silver | 68 comments | | HN request time: 1.501s | source | bottom

Maybe you've created your own AR program for wearables that shows the definition of a word when you highlight it IRL, or you've built a personal calendar app for your family to display on a monitor in the kitchen. Whatever it is, I'd love to hear it.
1. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35738121[source]
I built myself an automated hydroponic grow tent.

It measures and corrects pH, electrical conductivity, oxidation reduction potential, temperature of the air and water, water level, and humidity. It also automates pumps, lights, and fans (I know people normally advise against this). None of it is particularly sophisticated, but I’m really proud of it.

I initially used a deep water culture and later moved on to the nutrient film technique. It produces a lot of greens and herbs — way more than I ever expected — and it’s remarkably hands off. I recently left it to do its thing for almost 3 months before I had to intervene, and the problem wasn’t the water, nutrients, or the system failing explicitly. The plants just got too big for their channels and as they became stressed, they developed some pest issues. It was such a cool and empowering experience to see real world automation Just Work.

The whole thing is powered by an Arduino Nano RP2040 Connect. It’s a great little controller.

I’m currently designing my first PCB to consolidate the system onto a single board so my friends can easily build their own. It’s not extremely cheap, but it’s not too expensive either and you get a tremendous amount of food from it. It’s such a fun hobby.

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2. safety1st ◴[] No.35738138[source]
Would love to see a blog post on this or something!
replies(3): >>35738198 #>>35741645 #>>35758228 #
3. addisonl ◴[] No.35738198[source]
Same!
replies(1): >>35739609 #
4. primax ◴[] No.35738229[source]
I am intrigued and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
5. system2 ◴[] No.35738301[source]
How do you keep water touching sensors working long term? I tried similar sensors but they all get rusted / oxidized to work properly after a certain time.
replies(5): >>35738359 #>>35738569 #>>35739710 #>>35740860 #>>35741840 #
6. rytis ◴[] No.35738359[source]
not OP, but one of the tricks is to activate the sensors only when measuring, so there's no constant DC applied to the sensor wires/pads. once you have that, reduce measurement frequency, so to mainimise the time when voltage is applied to the sensors. for example once every hour for moisture is sufficient, and 1/sec isn't really going to help much.
replies(1): >>35738962 #
7. Aerbil313 ◴[] No.35738466[source]
I’m very interested, is it possible for you to open-source it? Also, what are its absolute dependencies? Does it depend on daylight? Fresh air from outside? Stored chemicals? Is water/air recyled? What is the reason behind you making this? I’m preparing for Collapse and want to do such a thing soon. If you can open-source it, it would be very cool and helpful.
replies(2): >>35750704 #>>35760325 #
8. hksoftware ◴[] No.35738569[source]
I've seen a clever setup with the sensors in a dry container above the water tank. There is a hole in the bottom. Before testing, a pump fills the container up with the tank water, flooding the sensor probes. When the pump stops, the water drains back out into the tank.
replies(2): >>35739834 #>>35743977 #
9. jacquesm ◴[] No.35738898[source]
> It produces a lot of greens and herbs

If that were NL at this point your whole audience would be on the floor laughing. 'Suuuure...'. What some people won't do to get decent tomatoes.

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10. itsmeste ◴[] No.35738927[source]
Do you know of a good source of information on how to recognize any plant's nutrient deficiencies accurately?
replies(2): >>35741709 #>>35756589 #
11. thendrill ◴[] No.35738928[source]
Can you please share a list of the sensors you use? I am very interested in this.
replies(1): >>35741999 #
12. amelius ◴[] No.35738962{3}[source]
Would alternating the polarity work?
replies(1): >>35739196 #
13. Dowwie ◴[] No.35739180[source]
Have you checked out flux.ai for PCB design?
replies(1): >>35741353 #
14. jesprenj ◴[] No.35739196{4}[source]
Off-topic but perhaps interesting:

That's what they do when performing catheter ablation (a medical procedure for curing cardiac fibrilation by destroying minute parts of muscle with electric current).

DC would work just as fine on this procedure, but due to electrolysis of water, oxygen and hydrogen bubbles would form, which could get stuck somewhere. Using a square wave AC quickly reverses the reaction every period, like you suggested for the moisture meter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catheter_ablation#Technique

I don't know the answer to your question, but it would be worth trying.

15. prenoob ◴[] No.35739228[source]
I'm assuming you have several tanks with ph+ and ph- solutions? Are you using off the shelf ph sensors? How about EC?
replies(1): >>35741602 #
16. lifty ◴[] No.35739419[source]
Do you use fish as well to balance the system or you do it directly using the right chemicals?
replies(1): >>35741654 #
17. imdsm ◴[] No.35739609{3}[source]
Same here.
replies(1): >>35740144 #
18. ljlukkar ◴[] No.35739710[source]
You need industrial level sensors and the water needs to be flowing constantly through them. I built something similar about 15 years ago and tested many sensors. In the end I had to pay about 1000 dollars for ph and ec meters that did the job reliably. To be honest there is nothing new here. This is how big greenhouses have been operating for decades.

In small scale there is more work maintaining the automated setup and calibrating the sensors than it would take to do the measurements and dosing manually.

replies(1): >>35742018 #
19. ljlukkar ◴[] No.35739834{3}[source]
The ph sensor will die fast if it the membrane is kept dry.
20. TeMPOraL ◴[] No.35739839[source]
Not from NL, but already started smiling at "hydroponic" :).
21. xcubic ◴[] No.35740144{4}[source]
Same!
replies(1): >>35740512 #
22. maxboone ◴[] No.35740512{5}[source]
Same!
replies(1): >>35744011 #
23. sirsinsalot ◴[] No.35740550[source]
Hey don't judge my pursuit of dank tomatoes
replies(2): >>35741684 #>>35759624 #
24. netsectoday ◴[] No.35740860[source]
You can use capacitive water sensors taped to the outside of non-capacitive containers (aluminum foil, a resistor, an arduino, and a plastic 5 gallon container), but honestly all you need are DNI timers to "automate" any grow operation. Put your lights and pumps on a schedule and there is absolutely no reason to get more creative. If you do anything besides low-level timers you're making it complicated and brittle with no added benefit.
25. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35741353[source]
Yes actually, that’s what I’m using to learn along with YouTube. I tried other software, but flux kind of hits a sweet spot for me.
26. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35741602[source]
That’s right, I’ve dissolved sulphur and potassium bicarbonate into separate containers, and peristaltic pumps dose a small amount every 15 minutes when the nutrient solution goes beyond the acceptable parameters for an hour. 15 minutes is enough time for one dose to register on a read of the pH level so that it doesn’t go too far.

As for EC, I can only correct it if it’s too low. If it’s 100 points below where I want it, I dose from two containers of pre mixed nutrient concentrate. They’re in separate containers because they’ll actually precipitate some of their constituents if they’re combined at high concentrations, which is too bad (it would be nice to use only one container).

The pH sensor I use is apparently lab grade, but only cost around $70 CAD. It has been holding up just fine for close to a year now. If I were doing this on a larger scale, I think I’d go for one that’s a bit more expensive from atlas scientific. They seem to stand by their products and claim their pH probes will operate for years if taken care of.

My EC sensor was quite a bit more — something like $150. I forget where I got it, because I had the idea to build this maybe 10 years ago and that was one of the first components I picked up! Looking around it seems like you can spend quite a bit less now, and it seems like they’re durable.

27. modriano ◴[] No.35741645[source]
Not OP and not OP's project, but I saw a fantastic automated hydroponic project on YT a few years back that is very similar. YT: [0] Blog Post [1] GitHub for the environmental control system [2]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyqykZK2Ev4

[1] https://kylegabriel.com/projects/2020/06/automated-hydroponi...

[2] https://github.com/kizniche/Mycodo

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28. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35741654[source]
I’d love to try using fish some day. I use some buffers I mixed from sulphur and potassium bicarbonate. I get them to an approximate pH and then let the system measure gradually as small amounts are dosed into the system.
29. HeyLaughingBoy ◴[] No.35741684{3}[source]
Fingers crossed for full legalization in Minnesota today. Including grow your own!
replies(1): >>35773827 #
30. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35741709[source]
Unfortunately no, there’s a lot of misinformation everywhere I look. I try to record my own experiences and stay on top of tracking results so I can know what helps under which conditions. Hydro seems to have mostly eliminated those concerns for me, though my outside garden still runs into all kinds of problems that are tricky to diagnose.
31. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35741840[source]
These sensors are designed to withstand contact with water and to minimize hydrolysis, and I haven’t had issues with that so far. I’ve been running this system for close to a year and they still seem to calibrate just fine.
32. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35741999[source]
I’ve been collecting them over time so I don’t have everything handy, but here are some:

pH: https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2069.html

EC: https://www.dfrobot.com/product-2565.html

Water temperature: https://www.adafruit.com/product/381

CO2: https://www.adafruit.com/product/5190

Air temp and humidity: https://www.adafruit.com/product/3251

There are others but I’ll have to dig into it! I think you could spend less on alternatives, too.

replies(1): >>35742960 #
33. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35742018{3}[source]
I think it can cost quite a bit less now, but you’re right — it isn’t cheap.
34. nemonemo ◴[] No.35742507[source]
Sorry for my ignorance, but is NL Netherlands? Also, could you give me some more context on why the people would be laughing?
replies(1): >>35743796 #
35. RajT88 ◴[] No.35742649[source]
You joke, but I have heard radio ads for hydroponic supplies in Canada, which very much had the tone of "wink, wink y'know for your veggie garden".

There was even a chuckling group of people in the background when they mentioned "veggies". This was in Toronto around 2011.

36. Kapura ◴[] No.35742960{3}[source]
thank you! i am also super interested in something like this
replies(1): >>35744165 #
37. Dazzler5648 ◴[] No.35743344{3}[source]
I built a system like Kyle Gabriel's (using his tutorial) and I grow mushrooms with it in a small tent, running Mycodo on a Raspi. This has probably been my most interesting tech I built just for myself, and my sanity. But credit where it's due: thanks Kyle!
replies(1): >>35744062 #
38. madmads ◴[] No.35743796{3}[source]
NL is meant as Netherlands here and the context is that since you can't talk about growing cannabis in the open, people talk about their "vegetable" gardens or "herbs" instead. The comment you're responding to is implying that the grow tent is used to grow cannabis but he's covering it up by saying it's a vegetable garden.
replies(1): >>35744318 #
39. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35743977{3}[source]
You’d need to wash the sensors and return their caps with protective fluids. It would be totally possible to automate, but perhaps the same overall cost as buying industrial grade sensors which can handle long term submersion.

You’d also need to ensure the caps contained enough storage solution at the right concentration. Over time the probes would introduce drops of nutrient solution (unless you rinsed them with distilled water, in which case you’d dilute the storage solution), and you’d need to replenish it.

40. Goofy_Coyote ◴[] No.35744011{6}[source]
Same!
replies(1): >>35745423 #
41. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35744062{4}[source]
Kyle is amazing. He’s still very active and supporting people with Mycodo. I learned a lot from him.
42. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35744165{4}[source]
You should absolutely go for it. Start even simpler and with lower investment if you want, too. These systems are easy to get running and you can gradually add sensors and automation as you go.

I wish I started a lot earlier, but I was constantly trying to have the right stuff, or enough stuff to get started with the perfect setup. It turns out that makes no sense. You’re going to make mistakes, learn stuff, figure out what you like and don’t like, etc.

Starting with a bare bones setup using NFT, not even in a grow tent necessarily, you’ll figure out really quickly what you want to do with it and how to move forward.

Something I also didn’t really understand or consider is how easy it is to add sensors or update firmware gradually. Each of the sensors I use is useful independently or together; it’s totally fine to start with just one. Though most important is arguably water and air temperature; you’ll use those to accurately adjust other sensor readings, and in the short term, they’re immediately critical to plant health.

I’ve got a small system running on my old deep water culture equipment in my outdoor greenhouse, and I actually check its pH with plain old pH testing drops, a vial, and a card with the colours to match against. It works totally fine. While it won’t teach you about automation, it’ll get you familiar with how your system responds to different conditions, what the pH tends to do with the plants you’re growing, and so on. This is all invaluable and I wish I knew it before I started automating. I would have written better code from the beginning.

replies(1): >>35756783 #
43. jacquesm ◴[] No.35744318{4}[source]
Almost: if it were NL I would imply that it is to grow cannabis but since the OP is obviously 100% sincere I don't doubt they're doing the legit thing.
44. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35744350[source]
Haha, I forget sometimes that I’ve totally normalized growing greens and other people associate it with cannabis. I’ve had a couple people come into my workshop and end up looking suspiciously at the grow tent humming along on the corner. When they see that it’s actually just lettuce I think they’re kind of surprised.
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45. jacquesm ◴[] No.35744383{3}[source]
Np, I just thought it was very funny. I've had a similar thing here where I ordered 500 ziplock backs and the guy on the other side goes '5 gram or 25 gram'? So I asked why the bags are so heavy and hilarity ensued. I needed them as parts bags for Lego... but it turns out they almost exclusively sell to gardeners.
46. 0xbadcafebee ◴[] No.35745423{7}[source]
Same!
replies(1): >>35748682 #
47. akiselev ◴[] No.35748354{3}[source]
Likewise! You should have seen the look on the landlord's face before I opened it up to show them the mess of cucumber plants in space buckets (sidenote: do not grow vining plants in a grow tent!)
48. lioeters ◴[] No.35748682{8}[source]
Same!
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49. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35750704[source]
> is it possible for you to open-source it?

Absolutely, I’d like to work towards contributing useful things to open source gardening technology. Once I have something useful to put into the world I definitely will.

> Does it depend on daylight?

No, this particular system is totally isolated apart from fresh air pulled in to regulate humidity and temperature. The lights are the most expensive aspect of the system by a wide margin, but they do work extremely effectively. The plants are very happy.

I have an older iteration of the system working in an outdoor greenhouse without artificial lighting. It uses fans to regulate air temperature and humidity, but it gets light from the sun. It’s doing fine so far, but the temperature is still relatively lower so growth is slower than in the tent. I’m excited to see what the results are like over summer.

> Is water/air recycled?

This is an interesting question because at the moment the answer is no, but I have the beginnings of plans to recycle the water. I use a reverse osmosis system to feed into the system gradually (this ensures my water sensors provide reliable readings), and I’m fairly sure I could add a secondary tank to drain old solution into, filter it, and use it as the source for the feed into the RO system and then back into the active tank. Though it’s not necessary now, I think that level of efficiency could be incredible.

I’d love to be recycling nutrients as well. I know there’s plenty leftover when a grow is done, but I can’t know what the ratio of each nutrient is in order to rebalance it for the crop I’m growing. I’m sure some growers are able to do this, but I have a feeling it’s a bit beyond me. It seems like a job for a mass spectrometer. That’s possible to DIY in a sane price range, but I will likely need to wait until my kids move out to take that on. I do love the idea in any case — utilizing all of the nutrients and reusing them when possible would be a major accomplishment for me.

> What is the reason behind you making this?

There are several reasons. One, I eat a lot of greens and they’re getting more expensive. I kept a sheet in Soulver (a sort of natural language math program) which outlines a cost breakdown of a head of lettuce grown hydroponically vs from a store. It eventually hit a point where I could grow it for less than I could buy it for, and it justified jumping in and making it happen. My ROI has worked out fine, so the sheet was correct and it’s not crazy to grow with a system like this (so long as you don’t mind the maintenance, harvesting, trial and error, etc). It has actually worked in favour of growing it myself quite a bit more since I first started and hasn’t shown signs of tilting the other way for a while now.

Two, I love learning. The more I learn the more reasons I find to be in awe of the world. Seeing the way the plants grow, understanding the chemistry and biology of the system, accomplishing new things with technology — I find it incredibly fulfilling. It shows my kids that the distance between here and making something interesting or useful happen is simply doing it. First we had an idea, then we had real plants growing almost magically in a system built from scratch. All of that is awesome.

Three, like you I see some instability in the world and I want to have a grasp on how I might ease tasks like finding reliable nutrition. I have bags of fertilizer because they’re not terribly expensive and they can help generate good nutrition quickly, easily, and very reliably. Something like the kratky method can actually work really well even without stable power, so long as light and temperature are reasonable. I also have a lot of seeds for sprouting, as they’re an incredible source of easy nutrition in emergencies too. I don’t really want to need these skills for that, but I do want to have practical skills for producing as much food as possible if something were to happen.

As far as open sourcing goes, I hope to get a sense for how easy or difficult it is to get up and running with this stuff once I can get it in my friends’ hands. I plan to add a crude web interface for managing environment and automation parameters, and I’d like to figure out a way to sensibly scale out the system. For example, not everyone I’ll be giving it to cares about pH or EC, so they don’t need those components. I could simply not solder things onto their boards, but I’d rather figure out something like using standoffs to join the boards in a stack and gradually add features that way. Kind of like hats on an arduino I guess.

As I iron this stuff out I definitely want to put it out in the world. At the moment there are so many superior options in ecosystems like raspberry pi, I feel like I’d be wasting people’s time. I do think a pi is overkill (though potentially complimentary) for this kind of thing though, and the power of a connected microcontroller with MQTT and simple RPC services is way beyond what most people expect.

replies(1): >>35766016 #
50. FriendWithMoon ◴[] No.35753753{9}[source]
Same, please!
replies(1): >>35761220 #
51. akeck ◴[] No.35756589[source]
Check out Bunnie Huang's post from Covid lockdown:

https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=6481

replies(1): >>35758248 #
52. ornornor ◴[] No.35756783{5}[source]
How practical is it to do any of this in an apartment, and in a living space? I’m very interested but don’t have any space outside the apartment I live in.
replies(1): >>35768936 #
53. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35758228[source]
One of these days I would really like to.

It’s funny, I used to write all the time and I loved it. I think I became a bit too critical of myself as I saw my site getting more traffic, and I got a bit too anxious to hit publish.

I should get back to it. I’ve been working on a visual editor which generates code you can flash on an arduino with the idea that eventually this could evolve into a little automated gardening platform, but I’m not fully convinced it would be received the way I hope it would. I know a lot of people are into automated gardening, but they might not be the people who would want to use this kind of platform. In any case, I might find out faster if I write about it and see what people think. My friends are certainly into it, but, they’re my friends! Haha. I need some strangers to laugh at my ideas, maybe.

54. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35758248{3}[source]
This is awesome, thank you!
55. RankingMember ◴[] No.35759624{3}[source]
Tomacco!
56. TheFattestNinja ◴[] No.35760324[source]
Amazing idea. Saved for later.
57. uuuuuuuuuuuuuuu ◴[] No.35760325[source]
The main resource that you need in steady state is always electricity. For light, heat, pumps. And a lot of it, especially in winter time. The rest is mostly closed loop.

If you are preparing for Collapse, ensure you have multiple independent sources of electricity available. Solar, hydro, wind. If you are in a city you are better off with a storage room full of canned food since your hydroponic plants wont give you much food after power goes out.

replies(1): >>35765800 #
58. jockerz ◴[] No.35761220{10}[source]
Same
replies(1): >>35764305 #
59. abhijeet03 ◴[] No.35764305{11}[source]
Same
replies(1): >>35792456 #
60. Aerbil313 ◴[] No.35765800{3}[source]
Thanks. I don't want to be anywhere near any population centre, the biggest threat by far is masses of hungry people imo. I'll build an open-source food production system with only dependency being sunlight later this year inshaAllah, everything else will be closed loop. I don't think any amount of canned food will cut it either, this is Collapse of the entire civilization we are talking about. Maybe 10 years of canned food will let me and my family ride out the initial population decline, but there's always the possibility that armed groups will take it, not to mention I can't not share it with those in need (read: everybody) as a muslim.
replies(1): >>35768870 #
61. Aerbil313 ◴[] No.35766016{3}[source]
Thank you very much! I'll start building a Biosphere 2-like [1] system for climate and weather independent food production later this year inshaAllah. So I'm interested in such projects. I also want to open-source mine because I can't see how I can accomplish it all by myself.

Input: sunlight and (optionally, if not contaminated by nuclear fallout) air. Output: meat, dairy and crops.

> I have an older iteration of the system working in an outdoor greenhouse without artificial lighting.

I think this should be possible with such a system, with full composting (including every biological waste, even human excrement), air-to-water devices, underground temperature and solar utilizing temperature control system and many more things, all in one massive greenhouse. I don't think hydroponics is the answer as it is highly fragile (system exists in sensitive equilibrum) or require chemicals (requiring global supply chain) or depend on complicated tech (many failure vectors).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosphere_2

replies(1): >>35768924 #
62. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35768870{4}[source]
I can’t not share with others, either. To me a collapse means bringing everything I’ve got to the table for my family and community — no hoarding, no hiding. I really believe these skills (hydroponics, basic automation, growing food) will matter if something happens.

People who can help and provide actually stepping up to support less able people is the best thing we can use to prevent real catastrophe, I think.

replies(1): >>35774371 #
63. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35768924{4}[source]
You’re absolutely right — hydroponics is a dead end if you’re mostly or entirely off grid with no supply chain.

I’m very interested in soil-based gardening and cyclical systems too, but I don’t have enough space to really experiment. However, if I did have the space, I’d love to explore an aquaponic system in a large enclosed area. Perhaps a large geodesic dome partly dug into the earth to help stabilize temperature. The ability to generate a nutrient solution from a biological system is absolutely inedible to me.

Thanks for the link to Biosphere 2, this is really interesting.

replies(1): >>35774299 #
64. steve_adams_86 ◴[] No.35768936{6}[source]
Totally practical in my opinion. I used to have a small tent in a closet, and while it needs ventilation, decent air and water pumps are not that loud at all these days. Some people even build cabinets to hold their systems, so they can go in a laundry room or similar space and be easier to access and vent:

https://youtu.be/EAzsdVAjTWU

65. sirsinsalot ◴[] No.35773827{4}[source]
Tomatoes are already legal i've no idea what you're talking about.
66. Aerbil313 ◴[] No.35774299{5}[source]
Thanks for the confirmation on hydroponics. On human manure, Humanure Handbook: https://humanurehandbook.com/
67. Aerbil313 ◴[] No.35774371{5}[source]
> to prevent real catastrophe

I guess we'll agree to disagree on this, I don't think we can prevent real catasthrophe. We can prevent some (relatively small) amount of suffering though, and all that matters is we do the best we can. A mind-opening must-read imo article on Collapse: https://medium.com/@CollapseSurvival/overshoot-why-its-alrea...

68. reaperman ◴[] No.35792456{12}[source]
Same