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231 points rntn | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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hunglee2 ◴[] No.35413150[source]
I think we (Americans and Europeans alike) wholly underestimate how Americanised European culture is becoming.

This is an observation rather than a criticism as I don't know whether this is 'good' or 'bad' but it is noticeable phenomena manifest through language, and probably an unintended consequence of the dependency of Europe on US communication technology, leading to the import of US communication styles, political priorities and cultural values.

France have always been conscious of this, no doubt as a result of their centuries old conflict with England, but it is interesting now to see Italian nationalists responding similarly. It's futile of course, as neither Italians, French nor any combination of European countries can or will make an internet independent of the US

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pyuser583 ◴[] No.35413353[source]
But “Italian nationalists” aren’t a thing.

There have been Italian language wars in border regions but they fizzle once non-locals get involved.

For example, South Tyrol has a large German speaking population. The Italian government has historically encouraged adoption of Italian.

But South Tyrol has (had?) a large Sicilian population that supported the local German speakers.

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hunglee2 ◴[] No.35413433[source]
Very interesting observation!

I think it's great if local languages and identifies can continue to thrive, but I don't think it can be said that Italian nationalism isn't a thing though - it has explicitly been a thing as the suppression of regional dialects and the 'making of Italians' was a stated objective of Italian nationalists immediately after the unification of Italy.

btw this does not make Italy exceptional in any way, the way modern 'nation states' were built followed exactly this pattern - suppression of regional languages - 'cultural genocide' - and the creation a new national identity to replace them

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pyuser583 ◴[] No.35413671[source]
The “making of Italians” has usually meant imposing northern Italian norms and language upon Southerners.

It’s always been touch and go.

Garbaldi and Mussolini placed a strong emphasis on “nationalism,” but other leaders were more focused on a building coalitions.

Can you give me the names of some Italian nationalist parties?

I was told by my Sicilian family the only reason Sicily is a part of Italy is Garibaldis ship was blown off course during a storm.

No idea if that’s true.

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hunglee2 ◴[] No.35413839[source]
yes absolutely, 'Italian' is Florentine right?

Same with modern French, which is basically Parisian, modern Spanish essentially Castillian. There is never an neutral language, it is linguistic supremacism one over the other. I absolutely respect Sicilians (and other regional groups) for resisting 'Florentine cultural imperialism'

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elnatro ◴[] No.35415094[source]
Modern Spanish is not Castillian. The Spanish Royal Academy recognizes and acknowledges all varieties and dialects of Spanish. Castillian is only one of them.
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marc_abonce ◴[] No.35417078[source]
While the RAE recommends calling the language Spanish, it recognizes that Castilian is a synonym of Spanish. [1]

My personal experience also corroborates this. In common usage, Castilian is the same language as Spanish and in fact I hear people from Spain refer to the language as Castilian, even when talking about the language as spoken in Latin America, regardless of the Academy's prescription.

[1] https://www.rae.es/dpd/espa%2525C3%2525B1ol

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1. elnatro ◴[] No.35471436{3}[source]
Calling the language “Castilian” or “Spanish” would depend on what region are you based on. In mine, “Spanish” is more used, and in most parts of the Americas.