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Parse, don't validate (2019)

(lexi-lambda.github.io)
398 points declanhaigh | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.424s | source
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jmull ◴[] No.35055254[source]
I get the point, but I wonder at why people find this particular article compelling. To me it's weak...

It's built on a particular technical distinction between paring and validating that (1) is not all that commonly understood or consistently accepted and (2) not actually explicitly stated in the article!

(validation: check data assumptions, fail of not met; parse: check data assumptions, fail if not met, and on success return data as a new type reflecting the additional constraints of the data, which can therefore be checked at compile time. Notice parsing includes validation, which makes the title of the article quite poor.)

That's important to know because the distinction is only meaningful in the context of certain language features, which may or may not apply.

Also, this is not great general advice:

> Push the burden of proof upward as far as possible, but no further

For one, it's a mostly meaningless, since it really just says put the burden of proof in the right place. But it implies that upward is preferable. You really want to push it upward if it's a high-level concern, and downward if it's a low-level concern. E.g., suppose you're working on an app or service that accesses the database, so the database is lower-level. You'll want to push your database-specific type transformations closer to the code that accesses the database.

Honestly, I find this whole thing kind of muddled.

(Also, in my experience, the fundamental limit here isn't on validation strategies, but the human ability to break down a problem and logically organize the solution. You can just as easily end up with an unmaintainable mess of spaghetti types as with any other useful abstraction.

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jakelazaroff ◴[] No.35055366[source]
> You really want to push it upward if it's a high-level concern, and downward if it's a low-level concern. E.g., suppose you're working on an app or service that accesses the database, so the database is lower-level. You'll want to push your database-specific type transformations closer to the code that accesses the database.

IMO, database code is at exactly the same level of concern as network code or filesystem code. By “upward”, she means push parsing to the boundaries of your program — as close to the point of ingress as possible.

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jmull ◴[] No.35062429[source]
The db access is just an example. I used upward and downward working off the terminology of the article. But I can put it like this:

For a given call or request, there's input, some work done with that input, and the result. (This is true, whether we're talking about a functional or imperative style.) Your code will have some structure that reflects the work to be done. You want to push your parsing toward the input if it's concerned with the input, and toward the result if it's concerned with the result.

Whether you want to call the processing closer to the input "upward", or "earlier" or whatever, that's fine with me. If you call the processing closer to the input and closer to the result both "upward" then I think it's not a useful metaphor and you should choose a different one.

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1. jakelazaroff ◴[] No.35063332[source]
Any given callee is going to deal with a bunch of both inputs and results. And it’s not clear to me what those terms mean — e.g. is the response from the database an “input” or a “result”?

I think your point of view would make more sense looking at the call stack — database access happens deeper than the code that handles the response, so you can’t push it “up” from there. And I mean, sure? But I don’t think that’s an inherently better frame than the one in which external sources are “upward” and your own application code is “downward”.