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258 points polyrand | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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captn3m0 ◴[] No.34490600[source]
Interesting how India is not in the list of countries where Amazon is relying on Stripe.

Amazon is doing its own fintech play here, with heavy investments into Amazon Pay, Amazon Credit cards, and more. None of that seems to be driven via Stripe, but other local partners and banks instead.

replies(2): >>34490812 #>>34491548 #
1. sidcool ◴[] No.34490812[source]
Payments infrastructure in India is years ahead of those in the US or Europe. Amazon uses it's own Amazon Pay here in India.
replies(2): >>34491050 #>>34492169 #
2. bjacobt ◴[] No.34491050[source]
Can you share some examples of what makes payments in India ahead of US or Europe?
replies(1): >>34491616 #
3. sofixa ◴[] No.34491616[source]
India's UPI allows for free instant transfers with email/phone number, regardless of amount. Business have started using it for payments, that's how good it is. In the Eurozone there's SEPA Instant which is close but requires a bank account number. In the US... checks in the mail? Or third party middlemen for the fun of it.
replies(2): >>34492163 #>>34493237 #
4. chimeracoder ◴[] No.34492163{3}[source]
> In the Eurozone there's SEPA Instant which is close but requires a bank account number. In the US... checks in the mail? Or third party middlemen for the fun of it.

SEPA's equivalent in the US is ACH, and in recent years ACH (which is a much older system) has mostly closed the gap with SEPA. Also, SEPA Instant exists, but not all banks are guaranteed to support it - as of even just a few months ago, many popular banks don't support it, which means that using SEPA reduces to ACH (in terms of payout settlement and information flow at POS).

Europe also has additional country-specific methods, so you can lean on (e.g.) iDEAL or or BACS if you know you're primarily dealing with Dutch or British customers, but that's not going to help you if you need seamless use across Europe.

ACH just never took off culturally in the US as a popular payment scheme - in part because of the easy availability of credit cards, which are usually free to the consumer and provide additional protections (such as chargebacks) that both ACH and SEPA lack. By contrast, credit card adoption is historically much lower in Europe (especially when segmented by country), so it makes sense that SEPA, for all its drawbacks, would catch on as a more popular method.

Of course, all of these pale in comparison to India's payment schemes, which are light-years ahead.

replies(1): >>34492734 #
5. singhambesh ◴[] No.34492169[source]
Not Europe. I pay with my Apple watch everywhere. UPI is good for merchants due to no MDR (for now) and no capex requirement in terms of devices etc. From a customer POV, UPI hardly adds value (ApplePay / GPay / Contact-less works much better).
replies(1): >>34492270 #
6. chimeracoder ◴[] No.34492270[source]
> Not Europe. I pay with my Apple watch everywhere.

Maybe everywhere that accepts Apple Pay, but given how low credit card penetration is in Europe overall (relatively), it's almost impossible to avoid falling back on cash at some points unless you're very limited in the places you patronize.

UPI adoption is massive (and not just in India). The ubiquity of it is a huge benefit to the consumer - simply the knowledge that you can reliably depend on using it even for a random street vendor is a huge paradigm shift, compared to the status quo of knowing that it might be an option, or might not, depending on who you're talking to.

replies(1): >>34492548 #
7. singhambesh ◴[] No.34492548{3}[source]
Debit card -> Add to ApplePay/ GPay -> Touch the POS -> Done. UPI is good for 3rd word as a) most merchants cant afford (wont get a POS) b) need working capital daily (as working capital loans are not available or merchants don't have a bank account).

From a customer POV, UPI with it's lower success rates, no chargeback/dispute mechanism and with higher latency (take out your phone -> unlock -> open app -> click scan QR button -> enter pass -> Look at loader for 3-10 sec) is worse than debit card set up on phone / watch.

8. devmor ◴[] No.34492734{4}[source]
ACH also never took off in the US because

A) You have to initiate a transfer at your bank, there's no way to use ACH independently as a consumer without a commerce setup or relying on a 3rd party (like Zelle).

B) There's no confirmation step. If someone has your Account Number and Routing Number and does have a commerce setup, they can debit your account at any time.

replies(1): >>34492982 #
9. chimeracoder ◴[] No.34492982{5}[source]
> You have to initiate a transfer at your bank, there's no way to use ACH independently as a consumer

That's actually not true - it appears that way because in practice ACH is only used in corner cases in the US, but it is absolutely possible.

> There's no confirmation step. If someone has your Account Number and Routing Number and does have a commerce setup, they can debit your account at any time.

...I have bad news for you about what the SEPA standards require!

10. JCharante ◴[] No.34493237{3}[source]
For smaller quantities (sub $1000) USA's Zelle allows for free instant transfers 24/7 with email/phone number. It does have daily limits but if a business was dealing with $15k MRR or $30k MRR then surely they would just buy a POS. So if you wanted to act as a merchant selling $200 of groceries out of your garage in your neighborhood in the US then you could feasibly do it using Zelle. Basically all banks support it. You might say that requiring a bank account is a barrier but they're literally free at many banks. You can even create a bank account completely online with companies like Charles Schwab.
replies(1): >>34497278 #
11. alsodumb ◴[] No.34497278{4}[source]
The difference is the extent of adaptation, especially in the business space.

You zelle a friend, sure, yet almost everyone I know use either Venmo or cash app (neither of which are interoperable). Everyone in India uses UPI with different flavors (Google Pay, Whatsapp Cash, Paytm, PhonePe, etc.)

Can you pay for Starbucks or a slice of pizza with Zelle? Probably not. Can you pay like 10 cents to someone selling tea in rural India with UPI? Probably yeah.

replies(1): >>34499623 #
12. signatoremo ◴[] No.34499623{5}[source]
Nobody uses Zelle to pay for a slide of pizza in the US because credit/debit cards are ubiquitous. Everyone and their dogs have one. Apple Pay and Google Pay make it even more convenient. Zelle and Venmo are for person to person money transfer. Different application. Also, FedNow is supposed to be available within a few months - [0]

UBI is a very good system, no need to exaggerate to feel superior.

[0] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/about....