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125 points akeck | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.218s | source
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ta8645 ◴[] No.33580501[source]
Artists are no different than all the people who tried to destroy the cotton gin or the automated loom. We're all going to have to live in a world where these technologies exist, and find a way to live a fulfilling life regardless. Just as chess players today enjoy the game even though computers have surpassed our chess abilities.

It seems odd to complain that computers are using human's artwork to inspire their own creations. Every human artist has done the exact same thing in their lifetime; it's unavoidable.

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schroeding ◴[] No.33580867[source]
> Just as chess players today enjoy the game even though computers have surpassed our chess abilities.

The "product" that chess players produce is not replaceable by ML systems. The game itself, the "fight" of two minds (or one mind against the machine, in the past) is the "product". Watching two chess AIs play against each other can't replace that.

For artists, the product is their output, the art itself. An approximation of that art can also be produced by a ML system now, making artists an unnecessary cost factor[1] for e.g. simple illustrations.

They are not comparable, IMO. Chess players are not replaced by ML systems, artists will be.

> it's unavoidable.

It really isn't. Of course it would be possible to just outlaw the use of things like "the pile", which includes gigabytes of random texts with unknown copyright status. The same goes for any training set that uses images scraped of the web, ignoring any copyright.

Yes, people would still do it, but it would have the same status that piracy has. You can't build a US multi-billion dollar company on piracy (for long), and you wouldn't be able to do so with ML systems that were trained on random stuff from the internet.

I don't think this, in such broad strokes, would be a good thing, to be clear. Such datasets are great for research! But I have a really hard time understanding this defeatism that there is "nothing we can do".

[1] from the perspective of some customers e.g. magazines or ad companies - I don't agree with this

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1. WA ◴[] No.33581903[source]
> For artists, the product is their output, the art itself.

For professional artists who do it for the money, yes, that's true.

For amateur artists, the product can be the process, the flow of creating art. Futhermore, I'd say a lot of art isn't about conveying an idea or whatever. You see something, you paint it, because you like it, give it your own spin. Maybe the end result is good, maybe not. Often enough, the art becomes "valuable", because others give it some new context.

> Chess players are not replaced by ML systems, artists will be.

Traditional artists working with real materials won't be. They might even get new interest, because digital art will be flodded with spam.

Or a magazine does, what the art scene has been about forever: Hire artists because of their name or their background.

The job "digital artist" was created roughly 20-30 years ago and now is transformed to something else or might become obsolete. Bummer for digital artists, but not sure if this will destroy "artists" in general.