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1624 points yaythefuture | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.694s | source

Saw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32261868 from a couple weeks ago and figured I'd share my own story.

3 weeks ago, I woke up to a pissed off customer telling me her payments were broken. My startup uses Stripe Connect to accept payments on behalf of our clients, and when I looked into it, I found that Stripe had decided to deactivate her account. Reason listed: 'Other'.

Great.

I contact Stripe via chat, and I learn nothing. Frontline support says "we'll look into it." Days go by, still nothing. Meanwhile, this customer is losing a massive amount of business and suffering.

After a few days, my team and I go at them from as many angles as possible. We're on the phone, we're on Twitter, we're reaching out to connections who work there / used to work there, and of course, we reach out to patio11. All of these support channels give us nothing except "we've got a team looking into it". But Stripe's frontline seems to be prohibited from offering any other info, I assume for liability reasons. "We wouldn't want to accidentally tell you the reason this happened, and have it be a bad one."

We ask: 1. Why was this account flagged? "I don't have that information" 2. What can we do to get this fixed? "I don't have access to that information. 3. Who does? "I don't have access to that information" 4. What can you do about this? "I've escalated your case. It's being reviewed."

I should mention at this point that I've been running this business since 2016, my customers have been more or less the same since then, and I've had (back when it was apparently possible) several phone conversations with Stripe staff about my business model. They know exactly who our customers are and what services we offer, and have approved it as such.

After a week of templated email responses and endless anxiety, we finally got an email from Stripe letting us know that they had reviewed the account and reactivated it. We never got a reason for why any of this had happened, despite asking for one multiple times. Oh well, still good news right? Except nope, this was only the beginning.

This morning I woke up to an email that about 35% of my client accounts had been deactivated and were "Under review", the kicker here being that one of those accounts is the same one they already reviewed last week! This is either the work of incompetent staff or (more likely) a bad algorithm. No reasonable human could make this mistake after last week's drama.

So currently, my product doesn't work for 35% of my customers. Cue torrent of pissed off customer emails.

And the best part is, this time I have an email from Stripe this time: Apparently these accounts are being flagged, despite the notes on our file, and despite the review completed literally last week, as not in compliance with Stripe's ToS. They suggest that if I believe this was done in error, I should reach out to customer support. Oh, you mean the same customer support that can't give me literally any information at all other than "We have a team looking into it"? The same customer support that won't give me any estimates as to how long it's going to take to put this fire out? The same customer support that literally looked into this a week ago and found no issues!?

I feel like I'm going crazy over here. These accounts have hundreds of thousands of dollars in them being held hostage by an utterly incompetent team / algorithm that seems to lack any and all empathy for the havoc they wreak on businesses when they pull the rug out from under them with no warning, nor for the impact they have on customers when they all of a sudden lose all ability to make money. And all that for an account that has been using Stripe for nearly 7 years without issue!

This goes so far beyond "customer support declining at scale." If lack of customer support means that critical integrations start to fail, that's not a customer support failure, that's a fundamental business failure.

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brightball ◴[] No.32855155[source]
Stuff like this is why I think a business should have a system that abstracts away the payment processor.

I use Stripe for invoices, but I can easily send an invoice through another platform if needed.

For processing transactions on the web, I would always lean toward using a service like ChargeBee that allows me to setup multiple payment gateways.

Getting off the ground quickly is one thing, but the moment that you have reliable revenue is the moment that you need to put some serious emphasis on redundancy across your business to plan for disasters, outages, etc. It's worth it to pay the fees to maintain a 2nd (or 3rd) payment processor once you have that type of revenue coming in.

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BiteCode_dev ◴[] No.32855295[source]
And if ChargeBee bans you, you are still dead because that's a single point of failure. No, you should have several payment processors, and rotate them regularly to check they work.
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brightball ◴[] No.32855344[source]
Under ChargeBee's terms, they must provide you with your data for up to 120 days following any termination. So there's that at least.

> 7.2.3. Data Export Following termination or expiration of a Subscription, We will retain that Account’s Service Data for one hundred twenty (120) days from such date of termination or expiration (“Data Retention Period”).

I mean, ideally we need an open source PCI compliant equivalent of ChargeBee so that you can 100% own your customers payment information.

That's the way this problem really gets solved, but the security surface for that open source project is going to be a challenge.

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1. hinkley ◴[] No.32855625[source]
SLAs only entitle you to a refund, not compensation for lost income. If you’re not making at least four times as much off a service as you pay for it, you really need to think about why you use that service.

Power can go out. Promises from the power company don’t fix that. Only backup power does.

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2. brightball ◴[] No.32858151[source]
Point here was that you’d hypothetically be able to get all of your data to setup an alternative if you had to, rather than just being shut down and waiting for them to fix it.
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3. hinkley ◴[] No.32868379[source]
Once you trust your vendors absolutely, your company becomes their company, because they can do whatever they want with it.

What always confuses me about this is that it seems like many owners trust their vendors over their own employees and I don't even know where to start unpacking that sentence.