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1624 points yaythefuture | 10 comments | | HN request time: 0.908s | source | bottom

Saw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32261868 from a couple weeks ago and figured I'd share my own story.

3 weeks ago, I woke up to a pissed off customer telling me her payments were broken. My startup uses Stripe Connect to accept payments on behalf of our clients, and when I looked into it, I found that Stripe had decided to deactivate her account. Reason listed: 'Other'.

Great.

I contact Stripe via chat, and I learn nothing. Frontline support says "we'll look into it." Days go by, still nothing. Meanwhile, this customer is losing a massive amount of business and suffering.

After a few days, my team and I go at them from as many angles as possible. We're on the phone, we're on Twitter, we're reaching out to connections who work there / used to work there, and of course, we reach out to patio11. All of these support channels give us nothing except "we've got a team looking into it". But Stripe's frontline seems to be prohibited from offering any other info, I assume for liability reasons. "We wouldn't want to accidentally tell you the reason this happened, and have it be a bad one."

We ask: 1. Why was this account flagged? "I don't have that information" 2. What can we do to get this fixed? "I don't have access to that information. 3. Who does? "I don't have access to that information" 4. What can you do about this? "I've escalated your case. It's being reviewed."

I should mention at this point that I've been running this business since 2016, my customers have been more or less the same since then, and I've had (back when it was apparently possible) several phone conversations with Stripe staff about my business model. They know exactly who our customers are and what services we offer, and have approved it as such.

After a week of templated email responses and endless anxiety, we finally got an email from Stripe letting us know that they had reviewed the account and reactivated it. We never got a reason for why any of this had happened, despite asking for one multiple times. Oh well, still good news right? Except nope, this was only the beginning.

This morning I woke up to an email that about 35% of my client accounts had been deactivated and were "Under review", the kicker here being that one of those accounts is the same one they already reviewed last week! This is either the work of incompetent staff or (more likely) a bad algorithm. No reasonable human could make this mistake after last week's drama.

So currently, my product doesn't work for 35% of my customers. Cue torrent of pissed off customer emails.

And the best part is, this time I have an email from Stripe this time: Apparently these accounts are being flagged, despite the notes on our file, and despite the review completed literally last week, as not in compliance with Stripe's ToS. They suggest that if I believe this was done in error, I should reach out to customer support. Oh, you mean the same customer support that can't give me literally any information at all other than "We have a team looking into it"? The same customer support that won't give me any estimates as to how long it's going to take to put this fire out? The same customer support that literally looked into this a week ago and found no issues!?

I feel like I'm going crazy over here. These accounts have hundreds of thousands of dollars in them being held hostage by an utterly incompetent team / algorithm that seems to lack any and all empathy for the havoc they wreak on businesses when they pull the rug out from under them with no warning, nor for the impact they have on customers when they all of a sudden lose all ability to make money. And all that for an account that has been using Stripe for nearly 7 years without issue!

This goes so far beyond "customer support declining at scale." If lack of customer support means that critical integrations start to fail, that's not a customer support failure, that's a fundamental business failure.

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ianhawes ◴[] No.32854855[source]
I will take the OP's story at face value, but I think a common theme in these sort of posts is the "Stripe not happy with my business model" angle which typically does not actually include any details about the business model.

For example, a few weeks ago the founder of Tailwind tweeted [0] about how Stripe had shut down their account when they were set to launch the Tailwind Job Board, despite many other job boards also using Stripe and there being no obvious increased risk. Any rational person would protest the fact that Stripe does not approve of this business.

Compare that to what I've seen on various Facebook groups about Stripe shutting down accounts. People aren't descriptive about what exactly they're selling and it usually boils down to "coaching" or some other gray area.

[0] https://twitter.com/adamwathan/status/1550092016242946049

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1. teraflop ◴[] No.32854975[source]
> Any rational person could see the issue with Stripe not approving of that business.

I think of myself as a fairly rational person, and I don't see the issue. Would you mind spelling out whatever you're trying to imply?

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2. zzzbra ◴[] No.32854987[source]
my thoughts exactly
3. ddevault ◴[] No.32855063[source]
The comment was phrased poorly and is difficult to parse. Better worded, same meaning: any rational person would protest the fact that Stripe does not approve of this business.
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4. Ancalagon ◴[] No.32855082[source]
I think they're saying Stripe thinks those businesses are scams, illegal, or otherwise in gray areas that Stripe would rather not support. There's probably some automated decision-making happening on the backend so there are edge cases where good business are getting shut down on accident.
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5. marckohlbrugge ◴[] No.32855097[source]
I think the author refers to "Stripe not approving the business" as an issue.
6. toss1 ◴[] No.32855245[source]
If that is the case, that is fine.

Then Stripe can FORKING SAY SO UP FRONT.

And those businesses can grumble but go elsewhere

Implying that you are happy to take on responsibility for infrastructure of someone's business, then unilaterally and without notice or opportunity to cure any issue, is pretty much tantamount to theft. Stripe in this case appears to be accepting money, then failing to provide service, and in this case is even holding onto money paid to their customers. This causes a lot more damage to others than it does to Stripe.

I don't like externalizing problems to other parties as a business model.

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7. ianhawes ◴[] No.32855336[source]
It sounded OK in my head :-)
8. donmaq ◴[] No.32856720{3}[source]
> I don't like externalizing problems to other parties as a business model

You just described the entire gig economy

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9. anigbrowl ◴[] No.32857697[source]
A Job Board not being approved, despite many other job boards also using Stripe and there being no obvious increased risk.
10. toss1 ◴[] No.32857836{4}[source]
YES! I have no idea why you are being downvoted on that - while it wasn't in mind while I wrote it, it does indeed apply! All the problems are at placed on the gig worker and the Ubers/AirBnBs/Instacarts of the world provide the software and work to shed as much responsibility as possible onto the drivers/hosts/workers. Apparently, there's a fair number of ppl on here who either do not see that or whose salary depends on them not seeing it.