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1624 points yaythefuture | 22 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom

Saw https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32261868 from a couple weeks ago and figured I'd share my own story.

3 weeks ago, I woke up to a pissed off customer telling me her payments were broken. My startup uses Stripe Connect to accept payments on behalf of our clients, and when I looked into it, I found that Stripe had decided to deactivate her account. Reason listed: 'Other'.

Great.

I contact Stripe via chat, and I learn nothing. Frontline support says "we'll look into it." Days go by, still nothing. Meanwhile, this customer is losing a massive amount of business and suffering.

After a few days, my team and I go at them from as many angles as possible. We're on the phone, we're on Twitter, we're reaching out to connections who work there / used to work there, and of course, we reach out to patio11. All of these support channels give us nothing except "we've got a team looking into it". But Stripe's frontline seems to be prohibited from offering any other info, I assume for liability reasons. "We wouldn't want to accidentally tell you the reason this happened, and have it be a bad one."

We ask: 1. Why was this account flagged? "I don't have that information" 2. What can we do to get this fixed? "I don't have access to that information. 3. Who does? "I don't have access to that information" 4. What can you do about this? "I've escalated your case. It's being reviewed."

I should mention at this point that I've been running this business since 2016, my customers have been more or less the same since then, and I've had (back when it was apparently possible) several phone conversations with Stripe staff about my business model. They know exactly who our customers are and what services we offer, and have approved it as such.

After a week of templated email responses and endless anxiety, we finally got an email from Stripe letting us know that they had reviewed the account and reactivated it. We never got a reason for why any of this had happened, despite asking for one multiple times. Oh well, still good news right? Except nope, this was only the beginning.

This morning I woke up to an email that about 35% of my client accounts had been deactivated and were "Under review", the kicker here being that one of those accounts is the same one they already reviewed last week! This is either the work of incompetent staff or (more likely) a bad algorithm. No reasonable human could make this mistake after last week's drama.

So currently, my product doesn't work for 35% of my customers. Cue torrent of pissed off customer emails.

And the best part is, this time I have an email from Stripe this time: Apparently these accounts are being flagged, despite the notes on our file, and despite the review completed literally last week, as not in compliance with Stripe's ToS. They suggest that if I believe this was done in error, I should reach out to customer support. Oh, you mean the same customer support that can't give me literally any information at all other than "We have a team looking into it"? The same customer support that won't give me any estimates as to how long it's going to take to put this fire out? The same customer support that literally looked into this a week ago and found no issues!?

I feel like I'm going crazy over here. These accounts have hundreds of thousands of dollars in them being held hostage by an utterly incompetent team / algorithm that seems to lack any and all empathy for the havoc they wreak on businesses when they pull the rug out from under them with no warning, nor for the impact they have on customers when they all of a sudden lose all ability to make money. And all that for an account that has been using Stripe for nearly 7 years without issue!

This goes so far beyond "customer support declining at scale." If lack of customer support means that critical integrations start to fail, that's not a customer support failure, that's a fundamental business failure.

Show context
droopyEyelids ◴[] No.32854631[source]
It sucks this happened to you, but like with all the PayPal hate stories, I notice you're very careful not to describe what type of business you operate.
replies(7): >>32854678 #>>32854690 #>>32854761 #>>32854905 #>>32855298 #>>32856082 #>>32856905 #
1. yaythefuture ◴[] No.32854690[source]
This is more a function of the fact that I don't want my business to be identifiable from this post than that it's a sketchy business. You'll have to take my word for it, but it's exceedingly benign.
replies(3): >>32854822 #>>32854843 #>>32855064 #
2. Exuma ◴[] No.32854822[source]
Are you sure it's not a medium risk business that IS benign, but STILL is considered medium to high risk?

For example, selling video game digital products like a strategy guide is benign, but gaming industry is ripe with fraud so most processors will give you shit if you're in the gaming niche, let alone (non-crypto) digital currencies, crypto, health products, non-snakeoil supplements, etc.

replies(1): >>32854889 #
3. deng ◴[] No.32854843[source]
I believe you, but I was also triggered by this line here

> They know exactly who our customers are and what services we offer, and have approved it as such.

which sounds like you offer services out of the ordinary.

replies(1): >>32854875 #
4. politelemon ◴[] No.32854875[source]
Which is besides the point.
replies(1): >>32854956 #
5. pmx ◴[] No.32854889[source]
Even if this is the case, it doesn't mean that Stripe should just be able to turn off a 3rd of the guy's business with no warning or reason. If they don't like what he's doing, tell him and give him notice to switch to another provider rather than just tanking his business over night.
replies(2): >>32855269 #>>32861739 #
6. deng ◴[] No.32854956{3}[source]
It is not. A company like Stripe is free to decide it does not want to be associated with certain services. You may disagree with that, and I would certainly agree they should at least be upfront about it, but it is not beside the point.
replies(2): >>32855091 #>>32865601 #
7. jessaustin ◴[] No.32855064[source]
Since HN is a community, you might have more luck getting this fixed if you posted this with your regular username? Never mind this suggestion if you have previously posted "sketchy" opinions that would harm your business, although you may be past that point now...
replies(1): >>32855412 #
8. bombcar ◴[] No.32855091{4}[source]
It certainly sounds like it’s some sort of e-pimp business based on what we know so far.
replies(1): >>32855766 #
9. m4jor ◴[] No.32855269{3}[source]
Yeah that isn't how payment processors work. If his clients are in breach of Stripes TOS it puts Stripe at odds with the compliance teams at Visa/MC/Amex immediately if they are processing his payments.

Source: I used to run adult websites which is considered 'high risk' and also these days responsible for overseeing 1M/m in CC processing for a state agency.

10. trollied ◴[] No.32855412[source]
Agree. The OP account was created today. If it was a long-standing user with lots of comment history, then I’d be more inclined to wonder what was going on etc.

Creating a new account on here to potentially get support is just plain wrong, and needs dealing with IMO. Should never hit the front page.

replies(1): >>32856117 #
11. bogwog ◴[] No.32855766{5}[source]
Source for that? OP is usign a throwaway account and hasn’t said anything about the business.
replies(1): >>32856506 #
12. yaythefuture ◴[] No.32856117{3}[source]
The problem is that my real HN account is my actual name. It'd be like 2 clicks to figure out what my business is.
replies(2): >>32856328 #>>32857633 #
13. jessaustin ◴[] No.32856328{4}[source]
Yeah, me too. I was wrong to suspect that you wanted to avoid associating your business with your HN content. So, are you trying to avoid leaving an online record of "this business helped Stripe screw over its customers"? Unless your customers have strong incentives not to talk publicly about their experiences, that ship has sailed...
replies(1): >>32857012 #
14. bombcar ◴[] No.32856506{6}[source]
That's most of it; having clients that have their own sub-stripe accounts that are triggering fraud detection and not mentioning the business.

It's not much to go on but it's all we have.

15. yaythefuture ◴[] No.32857012{5}[source]
Ha, not quite. It's more I'm concerned that people considering using my product will see this in the future (hopefully when this issue is resolved) and be wary of doing business with us.
replies(1): >>32859680 #
16. anigbrowl ◴[] No.32857633{4}[source]
Totally understandable, but what kind of business is it? If you just keep saying 'it's a business' but refuse to provide any further details then people are gonna make assumptions, eg adult entertainment. Nobody's asking what your specific business model is.

Also consider that if the situation continues your pissed-off downstream customers will ID you sooner or later.

replies(1): >>32858364 #
17. trollied ◴[] No.32858364{5}[source]
He's ignoring the "what type of business" questions. I'm getting downvoted. I don't care. He's ignoring it for a reason still.
replies(1): >>32865091 #
18. etcet ◴[] No.32859680{6}[source]
Is it an animal, a mineral, or a vegetable? Surely you can give us enough generic information that we can know roughly what kind of business you run without making it searchable.
replies(1): >>32865081 #
19. kevinmchugh ◴[] No.32861739{3}[source]
They only reason theyd do this is for reputation. They don't want a good reputation with people in risky business.
20. yaythefuture ◴[] No.32865081{7}[source]
We operate in the public sector where the number of startups is small. If I shared the vertical you'd be able to narrow it down to 2 or 3 companies.
21. yaythefuture ◴[] No.32865091{6}[source]
We operate in the public sector.
22. remram ◴[] No.32865601{4}[source]
It is free to do that, but if it decides it wants to kick customers out immediately without explanation, we are free to tell one another and use a different provider. That is the point we're discussing, whether the dev community can still consider Stripe reliable and professional.