Queen Elizabeth II has died

I share your feeling. I was struck by a deep sense of sadness as well. Maybe it’s silly, I don’t know, I sort of felt she was the grandma of the nation. It was a nice feeling knowing she’s there and a sad one knowing she no longer is.

One thing is for sure. She did leave a mark. Winston God damn Churchill was her first time minister! When I will be old and have grandchildren, I will tell my grandchildren how I became a British citizen. And when they’ll ask me when, I’ll tell them during the reign of The Queen. And they will know who I mean.

God rest her soul.

The most useful Twitter comment I saw today described the Queen as "iconic".

And I realised that's exactly what she was. She was iconic in the religious sense - an embodied icon of a nationalist religion.

This suddenly made a lot of things about the current state of the UK much clearer.

There is no practical sense in which she was genuinely "grandma of the nation." That personification goes one way only - from the population to what psychologists would call a parental projection.

Objectively she paid almost no attention to her subjects, except for a tiny number who were socially or financially notable.

She may have been witty and personable socially - as reported by many people - and perhaps the most interesting thing about her as an individual is that she trained as a mechanic during the war, taking delight in a job that women didn't usually do, and continued that interest through her life.

But I find the crypto-religious elements of the UK's (actually mostly just England's) relationship with her very unsettling.

And I genuinely believe she could have done far more for the people of the UK than she did. Especially recently.

Monarchy is a strange thing. When I flew to Bali on a Thai airline in the 90s a fair few pages of the inflight magazine were full of carefully manicured praise for the talents of the reigning monarch.

It seemed bizarre and alien. But over time I realised the UK has a similar relationship with its monarchy.

And where Heads of State are nominally expected to work for the Greater Good, it seems to be assumed that monarchs do the same, mostly by modelling social ease and extreme privilege.

This is all quite odd. I'm sure there are reasons for it - possibly evolutionary - and I suspect they're not obvious.

She's iconic, unbelievably so due to the duration of her reign and all the changes she's overseen. But...Charles III and then William and Louis will become as iconic. Although she's filled the job magnificently, Elizabeth was Elizabeth at the end of the day, but the British King/Queen is immortal.

I suspect she was iconic in a way we will not see again. It's likely that the British monarchy will not survive in its current form to Louis, perhaps not even to William. When QEII ascended, she was one of a scant handful of European monarchs that survived to the middle of the 20th century, and the public perception of the institution has steadily eroded over the years. If anything, QEII's longevity held some of that erosion back, but Charles and William will not.

Why is it likely? I've a feeling William will be as fondly regarded as his grandmother. Charles not so much, but he might not be in his post for very many years. Also don't overlook the fact that the British Empire and Commonwealth have basically fallen apart under QEII's watch, but that's still not likely to mean that the country gets rid of the monarchy. Nobody in the country is of the mind that having President Boris as head of state is a better idea than having King William. Not even the Scots.

The British Empire and Commonwealth may have fallen during her watch, but she wasn't the cause - Empire and its relics were increasingly relics of a different age and not something she or anyone could have averted.

My impression is that William benefited from just not being Charles, and some of the sheen rubbing off from his mother. Both of those things only go so far, and as he moves more and more into public responsibilities, he has more and more chances to bungle up. From the high of the early 2010s, the only way for him to trend was down, and its inevitable. William is, what, 40? Charles wasn't quite reviled when he was 40 too - he grew into that role.

Even if the monarchy isn't abolished outright before Louis or a sibling ascends, it's very possible that the United Kingdom in its current state may not. The unified crowns of England and Scotland may exist in title only, if that.

The UK becoming a republic would not automatically mean a divisive popularly elected politician being head of state. They could continue the current parliamentary system while having a neutral figurehead as President (many countries do this: Ireland and India for example).

yeah but what would be the point of doing that? No politician is going to try and bring about a vote to change from a monarch to a ceremonial figurehead. Indeed, given they swear an oath to the monarch, they're probably not even able to bring about that vote. There's no call for it from the electorate, so it wouldn't be a vote-winner and would be a waste of time.

I think an institution of monarchy fundamentally can’t survive tabloid journalism. Someone like QEII, who preceded it, could have the advantage of adapting to it as it developed. But people like William were targets since childhood. Every youthful indiscretion was covered. They’ve lived their whole life in a fishbowl. You can’t come out of that with the necessary level of mystique and gravitas it takes to be regarded as a divinely enshrined national mascot.

you know her subjects when lived to a ripe old age of 100 gets a letter from the queen right, the PR game is strong in Queen, call her anything but she did her job with her life and you're witnessing her legacy right now

I'm not sure it's going to be the same.

I couldn't tell you off-hand how many presidents I've lived through, how many prime minsters I've lived through, how many wars I've lived through ..

But I can tell you I've lived through one Queen.

Even just logistically, to replicate this takes a young start that's getting less and less likely. If we assume Charles has 10-20 years left on him, that'll make William 50-60.

> Indeed, given they swear an oath to the monarch, they're probably not even able to bring about that vote.

The oath itself wouldn't stop the British Parliament passing an Act of Parliament to abolish the Crown and replace it with some other system. In theory, the monarch could refuse to give their assent to the proposed law but given that would cause a constitutional crisis, in reality the chances are the monarch would assent and the system could be changed.

It seems it would take a republican government in power _or_ huge public demand that the monarchy to be abolished for that to happen which seems unlikely any time soon assuming King Charles III and his successors don't err massively.

The second in line to the throne is Prince George, not Prince Louis.

But half the tabloids absolutely love the monarchy. I feel like you don't really have a handle on what it's like to live in the UK at all.

Longest running opera in the world. Everything carefully scripted and in a way to appeal to the masses. See how her demise played out as a drama to get the population engaged.

I've noted the similarities between the Thai and British monarchy with unease as well.

I think it's perfectly plausible that one day the UK could be silently couped by elites using the monarchy as cover - much like Thailand was. The legal framework is all there. If the monarchy is on side, the army is on side.

> Why is it likely?

At this point it's just a real estate company with an opera front, at some point the brits will wake up and see it for what it is