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Mikhail Gorbachev has died

(www.reuters.com)
970 points homarp | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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bediger4000 ◴[] No.32654941[source]
I was taught that Ronald Reagan ended the cold war and gave us the longest lasting economic boom.
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flavius29663 ◴[] No.32654999[source]
He did. It's just that leftists in the US won't accept that and pretend that the Cold War just "ended" one day, because of the goodwill of the Russians, not because the US policy forced them into bankruptcy.
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romwell ◴[] No.32655195[source]
Yeah right, because the USSR had never before gone through hardship, and it's the "bankruptcy" that led to ousting of Gorbachev in a coup after his reforms (including a de-facto Prohibition, in Russia of all places!).

Let's also ignore that little thing that Russia is now doing in Ukraine, and put up a "mission accomplished" banner on the clusterfuck that happened in 1991.

The USSR didn't fall apart because of any goodwill, but it did fall apart because Gorbachev fucked up.

Reagan deserves as much credit for this as Obama does for the eruption of Eyjafjallajökull in Iceleand in 2010.

If you disagree, note that the burden of proof is on you here; and you're welcome to point out which specific effects of actions of Reagan's administration caused the collapse of the USSR, along with an explanation why much more severe hardships experienced by people of the USSR in the earlier decades did not.

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avmich ◴[] No.32655586{3}[source]
> Yeah right, because the USSR had never before gone through hardship, and it's the "bankruptcy" that led to ousting of Gorbachev in a coup after his reforms (including a de-facto Prohibition, in Russia of all places!).

Hardship is something USSR went through many times - until it didn't. And there were many reasons, on many levels, why the situation in late 1980-s was bleak. What was with the oil prices at the time?

> The USSR didn't fall apart because of any goodwill, but it did fall apart because Gorbachev fucked up.

One of his phrases was "socialism with a human face". Before Gorbachev, Andropov tried to "rule as it should be done", but, as a popular joke states, "has proven that if you rule seriously, you can't live longer than a year". Stalinist times have ended, and more soft, Brezhnev-like ruling turned out to be too incapable. Gorbachev managed to do few mistakes, while trying to rule mostly well - and ended up with opening the country, in the form of many states, to the beneficial external world.

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1. romwell ◴[] No.32657963{4}[source]
I'm not saying that Gorbachev's ideals were flawed. It's the approach he took to putting them in place.

In a way, he was putting "the human face" on socialism in the same hamfisted manner that the "should be done" socialism was pushed down people's throats before.

His bright idea to solve the alcoholism problem by having a Prohibition 2.0 is a prime example.

What with the oil prices? Forget that, look at the vodka prices.

That's solely on Gorbachev. And it worked as well as you'd expect.

https://www.nytimes.com/1985/08/27/world/soviet-liquor-price...