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The Big [Censored] Theory

(pudding.cool)
1444 points feross | 2 comments | 29 Aug 22 17:34 UTC | HN request time: 0.424s | source
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still_grokking ◴[29 Aug 22 21:08 UTC] No.32643578[source]▶
What's the moral here?

There is also a lot of censoring in the "western" world.

It's also mostly justified by the exact same "reasons" like the ones mentioned in that blog post. Especial the "but the children" "argument" is used the whole time. And if that gets boring than it's "terrorism". Than again "the children".

Also there are a lot of things one can't publicity say for political reasons.

In Germany for example most people know: If you want to watch some more "controversial" movies, or play uncensored games you need to get them on the gray or black market. The German versions are very often heavily censored, or there is just no German version at all because the content is outright verboten.

Also communication online gets censored. It's impossible by now to say some (still) completely "legal" but "not politically correct" things online especially around mainstream media.

The censorship in the EU gets also stronger every year. Now they banned "dangerous" foreign media… Actually without any grounding in established law. But who needs laws? It will take as always many many years until some judge will have the last saying and declare the things the government did as illegal. But than the game will just start again, also as always: Making illegal "laws" takes weeks. Getting rid of them takes decades. Then they change the wording, and you need to sue through all instance form the beginning. Ad nauseam.

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danjoredd ◴[29 Aug 22 21:24 UTC] No.32643758[source]▶
It is more extreme in China than in America. In addition to sex, lgbt, and other things of a similar nature, movies with magic are especially rejected. Ever notice how movies seem to be getting more bland and milk/toast each year? its because there is a lot of money in China, and China only accepts a few foreign movies each year. Disney, Warner Bros, etc. all want a slice of that pie so they comply with Chinese censors as much as they can to get in. Germany is almost as bad, I agree, but companies aren't stooping to Germany. They stoop to China for the money, and it affects the whole of the west as a result.
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still_grokking ◴[29 Aug 22 23:24 UTC] No.32644814[source]▶
> Germany is almost as bad, I agree, […]

I hope we didn't reach Chines levels by now, and that there is still hope.

But yes, we're working hard on that and "like" to reach their level soonish. Our variant of the Ministry of Truth gets shaped out a little more with every year. Since the so called "Netzwerkdurchsuchungsgesetz"¹ we've got really close I guess. But there's already more coming: "Chatkontrolle"²…

> […] but companies aren't stooping to Germany.

Well, we're the country that had had shooter games with green blood for years, because reasons (and companies obeyed). Also there are of course special versions of movies, extra for the German market, that are "reworked" here and there to pass the censors. Freedom of speech and freedom of art have strict limits, you know… Something something, because Nazis. (The above mentioned laws get actually partly justified "because Nazis"; but judge for yourself).

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¹ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Enforcement_Act

>> The Network Enforcement Act (Netzwerkdurchsetzungsgesetz, NetzDG; German: Gesetz zur Verbesserung der Rechtsdurchsetzung in sozialen Netzwerken), also known colloquially as the Facebook Act (Facebook-Gesetz), is a German law that was passed in the Bundestag that officially aims to combating fake news, hate speech and misinformation online.

>> The Act obligates social media platforms with over 2 million users to remove "clearly illegal" content within 24 hours and all illegal content within 7 days of it being posted, or face a maximum fine of 50 million Euros. The deleted content must be stored for at least 10 weeks afterwards, and platforms must submit transparency reports on dealing with illegal content every six months. It was passed by the Bundestag in June 2017 and took full effect in January 2018.

>> The law has been criticised both locally and internationally by politicians, human rights groups, journalists and academics for incentivising social media platforms to pre-emptively censor valid and lawful expression, and making them the arbiter of what constitutes free expression and curtailing freedom of speech in Germany.

Of course it's only against "fake news, hate speech and misinformation online". Exactly like the laws in China…

Just for fun: Compare with the German Wikipedia page. Maybe you notice something. ;-)

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² https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/messaging-and-chat-co...

>> The EU wants to oblige providers to search all private chats, messages, and emails automatically for suspicious content – generally and indiscriminately. The stated aim: To prosecute child pornography. The result: Mass surveillance by means of fully automated real-time messaging and chat control and the end of secrecy of digital correspondence.

>> Other consequences of the proposal are ineffective network blocking, screening of person cloud storage including private photos, mandatory age verification leading to the end of anonymous communication, censorship in Appstores and the paternalism and exclusion of minors in the digital world.

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1. danjoredd ◴[30 Aug 22 13:57 UTC] No.32650488[source]▶
Yes, games were censored, but they stayed the same for the rest of the world. Its a simple value change to make the blood green, so it was easy to pull off. For companies vying to get into China, they have to change the whole product for nearly everyone to get accepted, or have massive amounts of that product censored, and made to be a lesser product as a result. For those companies, why would you risk not only being rejected but having your movie gutted when you can just rewrite the whole thing to work with what the Chinese want? Thankfully videogames are not nearly as concerned with getting china dollars as movie studios so we aren't getting that kind of widespread global censorship yet. But really, its only a matter of time unless something cracks.
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2. still_grokking ◴[30 Aug 22 16:56 UTC] No.32652566[source]▶
I get your point (and there is something to it).

But still there are "international" versions of content and some "special versions" for some countries—and not an ultimately "pre-censored" version that would "please everybody" (or better said, all boards of censors at once regardless country).

For US audience you need for example to censor nipples. In Germany we make jokes about that. But here a swastika is a very big problem, US people would not mind OTOH. Making a Mohamed joke will get you banned elsewhere; and so forth.

So I don't really see an acute danger of "pre-censoring".

The actual scandal is that the content industry just obeys all that madness. Of course, because they're only interested in the money. The actual messages are completely irrelevant and get changed fundamentally at a whim without remorse. That's the part that makes me think.