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1135 points carride | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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supernova87a ◴[] No.32415390[source]
I greatly respect the initiative and scrappy-ness of someone doing this. And the legacy providers are clearly sitting on their monopoly position in a way that makes their pathetic alternative so starkly unattractive.

But isn't it also true that once his network grows above a certain customer base (and gets into the maintenance phase), he will start to see all the effects that eat into being able to do this cheaply?

Namely:

-- customers who don't behave as well or kindly as before

-- customers who need 24 hour customer service

-- maintenance that can't be done himself, and he has to employ people

-- customers and vendors who sue you for breach of contract, or other simply nuisance lawsuits

-- upgrading the network to the next technology requirement, or when he's unable to get 2nd-hand parts so cheaply, etc.

-- or a natural disaster that unexpectedly forces replacement of (and charging for) equipment that wasn't anticipated in the original subscriber price

Maybe none of this rises to the level of making it fundamentally different or unsustainable? But it seems to me the honeymoon phase doesn't last long, and it's got to hit some unavoidable realities soon. At least, if you think you can replicate this, it requires finding people and neighbors who are willing to do actual work and investment/concern to make something like this possible, and not simply pay a vendor a premium to phone it in. It must be treated like a neighbor-to-neighbor community project, not a faceless commercial transaction with its attendant obligations.

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dimitrios1 ◴[] No.32415780[source]
> -- customers who don't behave as well or kindly as before

Easy. Refuse service. You aren't legally obligated to offer your service to assholes. Any business has the right to do or not do business with whoever they want, provided they’re not refusing service for a reason that violates local, state, or federal law.

> -- customers who need 24 hour customer service

Also easy. You are under no obligation to meet peoples unrealistic demands or needs.

> -- maintenance that can't be done himself, and he has to employ people

He already is familiar with third party contracting.

> -- customers and vendors who sue you for breach of contract, or other simply nuisance lawsuits

Frivolous lawsuits are a risk in any business in America.

> -- upgrading the network to the next technology requirement, or when he's unable to get 2nd-hand parts so cheaply, etc.

What is this "next technology requirement"? My area cable company still runs most their network on 30 year old lines.

> -- or a natural disaster that unexpectedly forces replacement of (and charging for) equipment that wasn't anticipated in the original subscriber price

Cost of doing business, doesn't matter the size.

I think people don't understand just how profitable municipal broadband can be. It's why big players spend so much lobbying and bribing so they can keep their established position running and keep the gravy train running, but really the economics of it are fantastic once you've done the initial digging and running the lines, which sounds like he has here.

At $55 /mo for 400 households he's bringing in $22,000 a month plus whatever federal and local government subsidies and grants. The odds of a disaster, or one of the other scenarios you mentioned happening anytime soon is low, so he will have runway to build a decent sized war-chest to be able to easily afford handling any of these scenarios with third party contractors. The more houses he brings on line, the better it gets.

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1. jedberg ◴[] No.32416365[source]
Right, but that's OPs point. If he does what you say, he's no better than Comcast, ignoring customers and telling them to screw themselves at the first sign of trouble.
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2. mattnewton ◴[] No.32416511[source]
There’s still a country mile between what gp is suggesting and what Comcast gets away with because of their monopoly position.

Anecdotally, I replaced a router they gave me because it would randomly crap out (probably neighbors using the xfinity Wi-Fi feature I couldn’t turn off), and they kept trying to charge me a monthly rental fee for their router. Every time I would call with confirmation it had been returned, the charge would be removed for just that month and back again the next - this is just the most recent example of a long line of infuriating time wasting schemes I have dealt with from them.

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3. greesil ◴[] No.32417084[source]
Yeah but at least they're getting gigabit from an asshole, instead of 1.5 Mbps from an asshole.
4. II2II ◴[] No.32417190[source]
I'm with an ISP that is fairly well known for having poor support. I have never had an issue with them. They deal with problems on their end efficiently and without complaint. I would never expect them to deal with a problem on my end, so they never have an excuse to provide me with poor customer service. It all works fairly well, particularly since I am paying about the half the price compared to a major telecom company.

Compare that to a major telecom company. Even if I took the same approach, I would have more issues to deal with (typically issues over billing, rather than technical problems).

5. justrudd ◴[] No.32417560[source]
This happened to me as well with Cox Cable in AZ back in the early 2000s. I returned the modem and got the returned receipt. Next 6 months I had to call and get them to reverse the charges. At that point, I started recording all the calls each time I had to call and get the charge reversed. Recorded 5 months of calls, had them transcribed, and sent the transcriptions, recordings, and a copy of the return receipt to the AG’s office saying “I believe Cox is committing fraud, and I wonder how many people they’re doing this to”. Never heard from Cox again. I did actually wonder how many people just continued paying it because “it’s just $5 a month”
6. Handytinge ◴[] No.32458664[source]
I seem to see this a lot especially with American business owners. You don't have to service every customer market. If you offer only certain speeds or certain hours of support, despite being able to support otherwise, that's fine. Not every customers fits your target market.