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207 points jimhi | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.486s | source
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germandiago ◴[] No.29829418[source]
This is the sad truth of places like Cuba or North Korea. Everything is forbidden to the point that eating is difficult. So people get corrupted and the guards, etc. just want their part.

None of those things should be illegal. It is really annoying to see how a leader class kills people of hunger and make everything illegal so that now everyone is a criminal for trying to survive.

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mrtksn ◴[] No.29830389[source]
I don't know about DPRK but I have been to Cuba for a 2 weeks vacation, so I had time to go out of the default tourists spots.

What I've seen is this: Those who have access to tourists or to the government are rich. Corruption is rampant as I've seen people bribing police right at the airport to have their things sorted out.

The mainstream corruption in society revolves around casa particulars and taxis. Essentially, you have right to rent a room and you have right to ride a taxi but there are strict limits on how much you can do it. So what more entrepreneurial people do? Simply distribute the business ownership to their friends and relatives on paper and keep growing and running their enterprises.

Also, there are two different types of shops and businesses: Locals only shops, locals only restaurants, locals only buses that are at very poor quality and I believe they are free or heavily subsidised and there are better quality versions that have prices similar to the European countries(prices way beyond a person with a salary can afford). So who do you think eats at these expensive restaurants? Yes, tourists - but also people who have access to tourists and people who work for the government.

One day a wandered around my casa particular in Havana and ended up in a place with very nice houses quite close to governmental buildings. I took some photos, enjoyed the place and ate at a restaurant. Then I noticed that the restaurant got very busy with military personel and well dressed people. Those were definitely not tourists, those were people from the nearby governmental buildings having a dinner after work.

Very interesting experience overall. Almost completely positive, full of life lessons about so many things including classes in the society where they are not supposed to exists. I'm also convinced that consumerism is not the only way to a happy life and abundance and excess are not necessarily the answer. The first week was hard, the second week I was completely happy to have only 2 options for beer and 1 option for chocolate.

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hunterb123[dead post] ◴[] No.29831559[source]
malermeister ◴[] No.29832357[source]
Cuba gives free healthcare to its people and runs the largest medical school in the world [1] for free, with the explicit purpose of training foreign doctors so they can help their underprivileged communities.

Meanwhile, in the US, the richest country in the world, people are dying because they can't afford life-saving insulin. [2]

Life expectancy is higher in Cuba than the US! [3]

It's not all black and white. Every country does good things and bad things. You just choose to ignore the bad things one country does and solely focus on them for another one.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELAM_(Latin_American_School_of... [2] https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/rise-patients... [3] https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/cuba/usa?sc=XE2...

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perl4ever ◴[] No.29833590[source]
>Every country does good things and bad things. You just choose to ignore the bad things one country does and solely focus on them for another one.

I agree. Comparing two countries in an unbiased way is very difficult.

>people are dying because they can't afford life-saving insulin

If I develop type 2 diabetes, do you think my life expectancy would be longer in Cuba? Who can I trust for relevant statistics and information?

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1. malermeister ◴[] No.29834431[source]
> If I develop type 2 diabetes, do you think my life expectancy would be longer in Cuba?

I think that depends on your socioeconomic class and your insurance in the US. I'd say for the median citizen, life expectancy in Cuba with diabetes is probably higher as insulin cost isn't an issue and they do very frequent health check-ins that would be prohibitively expensive for a lot of Americans.

But seeing how you post on HN, chances are you have better healthcare available to you than the median American...

Then again, it seems like Cuba has some pretty cool homegrown diabetes treatments available: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/article/Let-s-open-the-d...

> Who can I trust for relevant statistics and information?

That's a good question and I don't have a good answer. Consensus internationally seems to be that the Cuban healthcare system is legit, but I must admit i haven't dug all that deep.

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2. perl4ever ◴[] No.29835043[source]
>But seeing how you post on HN, chances are you have better healthcare available to you than the median American...

A family member with the condition relied on Medicare. That seems like the most likely scenario.

>Consensus internationally seems to be that the Cuban healthcare system is legit, but I must admit i haven't dug all that deep.

Neither have I. But this is interesting. A little over ten years ago, there were reports of "mass deaths" of patients of a mental hospital in Cuba due to the cold.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cuba-trial/cuba-tries-doc...

I guess it's due to my imagination, and the things I read when I was younger, but the more something is understated, the more it's downplayed, and the more details that are left out, the more horrifying it can be. Sometimes I have the impression that other people don't ask questions, either out loud, or in their mind. That they know where to stop, as if there were a nice neat line that separated us from what's beyond the pale.

How can you die of cold in Cuba is one question I think of. Well, it was down to about 38F, and reportedly the glass from the windows and doors was missing. Also the blankets.

Next question would be why was that stuff missing? Perhaps it was taken and sold?

Why would it be sold? Perhaps because it was worth vastly more on the open market than the staff were paid in salaries?

All rhetorical questions in my head, not questions for you particularly.

This story plants in my mind the idea of doctors to whom blankets and pieces of glass are such wealth.

Whenever I read a comment about the Cuban health care system, I will think of it.