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693 points hienyimba | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.213s | source
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pc ◴[] No.28523805[source]
(Stripe cofounder.)

Ugh, apologies. Something very clearly went wrong here and we’re already investigating.

Zooming out, a few broader comments:

* Unlike most services, Stripe can easily lose very large amounts of money on individual accounts, and thousands of people try to do so every day. We are de facto running a big bug bounty/incentive program for evading our fraudulent user detection systems.

* Errors like these happen, which we hate, and we take every single false rejection that we discover seriously, knowing that there’s another founder at the other end of the line. We try to make it easy to get in touch with the humans at Stripe, me included, to maximize the number that we discover and the speed with which we get to remedy them.

* When these mistaken rejections happen, it’s usually because the business (inadvertently) clusters strongly with behavior that fraudulent users tend to engage in. Seeking to cloak spending and using virtual cards to mask activity is a common fraudulent pattern. Of course, there are very legitimate reasons to want to do this too (as this case demonstrates).

* We actually have an ongoing project to reduce the occurrence of these mistaken rejections by 90% by the end of this year. I think we’ll succeed at it. (They’re already down 50% since earlier this year.)

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blantonl ◴[] No.28527043[source]
We actually have an ongoing project to reduce the occurrence of these mistaken rejections by 90% by the end of this year. I think we’ll succeed at it. (They’re already down 50% since earlier this year.)

It seems to me that if a company provides such an important service to other companies (i.e. functioning as that company's direct revenue source - payments), then if somewhere it is determined that Stripe no longer intends to provide that service, someone at Stripe should be reaching out proactively, via a telephone or other method, to the leadership at the customer and explaining to them in detail why the decision was made to terminate the relationship and what recourse they have.

I shudder to think of the impact something that an algorithm based decision like would have on my business in this scenario. I would be an absolute disaster, and could have far reaching implications for the viability of someone's business.

Every single decision where Stripe is terminating a relationship should have a clear path to a human being for resolution, and should be reviewed by a human before the decision is even made. Like, setup a conference call with leadership and work through the issue. Most fraudsters wouldn't go through that process anyway, and it provides a proactive approach to working with customers who obviously would be in a complete disaster recovery scenario if this occurred so it would be all hands on deck on the customers side. Nothing is worse than having all hands on deck to address a critical issue and feeling helpless because the other side of the equation is an auto-responder email box.

No business should be writing blog posts for help on something like this.

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1. morei ◴[] No.28533082[source]
There's a couple of key things here:

1. The sheer volume of fraud attempts. Economics often dictate that it needs to be cheap and fast to reject a fraud attempt.

2. Information leakage. It's normal to see people complain that '<insert service of choice> banned them and refused to say way'. There's a very good reason for that: They're trying to slow the rate at which fraudsters learn to exploit them. So they deliberately don't detail exactly what the issue was. Yes, it's super frustrating if you get innocently caught up it, but it's not arbitrary.

TL;DR: Like everything else in life, there are real and genuine trade-offs here.