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Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

(slate.com)
527 points lxm | 15 comments | 29 Jun 21 03:25 UTC | HN request time: 0.871s | source | bottom
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sksksk ◴[29 Jun 21 08:51 UTC] No.27673432[source]▶
When they work well, they're really good, but when they work badly, they're _really_ bad.

The other week, I went for dinner at a place that had a online ordering system. My experience was as follows...

Arrive at the table, scan the QR code

No phone signal in the restaurant, so I need to connect to the wifi.

Connect to the wifi, get a captive portal

Need to put my phone number in to connect to the wifi; there is no signal, so I need to go outside, to receieve the confirmation code.

Connected to the wifi, scan the code again, choose my food.

Go to pay, need to register an account

Put my email address in, I already have an account on this food ordering service!?

Do a password reset

Put in my credit card details (why not use apple pay?).

This whole time, we're sat at a table, in theory to meet friends, but we've spent the first 15 minutes all glued to our phones!

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resonious ◴[29 Jun 21 13:18 UTC] No.27675356[source]▶
On the general topic of "technology in restaurants", I've noticed an increasing number of restaurants where the waitstaff uses phones/tablets with some kind of specialized app. This happens often: we start telling them our order, and they have to say "wait a sec.... (taps phone for several seconds) okay what was that?". The "UX" as a patron is pretty bad compared to the waitstaff just whipping out a notepad and scribbling as we order, or better yet memorizing the orders.
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conductr ◴[29 Jun 21 14:21 UTC] No.27676152[source]▶
My biggest cheapskate-old-man gripe is how the UX as you said is systemically deteriorating in restaurants yet the tip expectations have creeped up from 15% standard to now 25% default. And, all apps that compute tip % or recommended tip amounts tip on top of tax, which really irks me as just a dark pattern to rip off patrons and inflate the tip amount. This is US tipping culture at absolute worse.

I hold at 15% standard. Yet, many apps have defaults for 18%, 20%, 22%... all way up to 30% from what I've seen. And, they allow me to "Custom Tip" which I do once I find it (it's usually small and text instead of a button like the presets). However, once you select custom I'm back into dollars instead of percents so I have to do the math myself (and I don't even remember what the total was by this screen). At this point, I'm feeling like "okay you just don't want my money then because I'm not a whale of a tipper" so I have as some act of defiance started just skipping it altogether. I know it's not fair for that server but it's what little I can do to voice my dissent of the system.

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1. msrenee ◴[29 Jun 21 15:13 UTC] No.27676976[source]▶
You're not really voicing your dissent at that point. The server gets no tip and doesn't get any indication why. Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager? Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.
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2. conductr ◴[29 Jun 21 15:42 UTC] No.27677489[source]▶
> Why not just bring cash to tip? Or call the restaurant and talk to the manager?

We're talking patron UX here and point is I don't what to shoulder the burden. I didn't even want to calculate 15% tip in my head and you want me to start carrying cash everywhere, something I haven't done since Y2K was a concern. Spend 15 minutes waiting for the manager to come over? No thanks.

> Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.

I view that as "not my problem". I know it's wrong if the server gets screwed, I'm not arguing this is a just behavior on my part. But, if you extrapolate my behavior to all patrons the restaurant would get a hint real quick that people didn't want to tip 20%/25% and reduce the defaults. They know I'm dissenting it's just that I'm the only one dissenting so they're not even paying attention. Instead, what is happening is the opposite. Patrons were conditioned that 15% is too low. 20% is now standard, pushing up to 25% which will be standard in a couple years if trend continues.

FWIW, I hate tipping in general. I wish they were paid a fair wage and I was billed appropriately on the front end.

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3. chihuahua ◴[29 Jun 21 16:45 UTC] No.27678414[source]▶
Not only does the "recommended" tipping amount keep going up, but in a lot of discussions there's the additional bullshit of waiters saying "Well 25% is the bare minimum, (if you're a total jerk), but if you tip 35% we'll really take care of you!"

To me, a waiter provides no value at all. I'd rather order at a counter and pick up the food myself. Then I don't have someone asking me "how is everything" when my mouth is full. I don't need to pay someone a 30% cut for this.

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4. twiddling ◴[29 Jun 21 17:11 UTC] No.27678775[source]▶
< FWIW, I hate tipping in general. I wish they were paid a fair wage and I was billed appropriately on the front end.

In several states they are. Washington St. doesn't have a lower minimum wage for servers.

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5. conductr ◴[29 Jun 21 17:29 UTC] No.27679070{3}[source]▶
I've visited and really enjoyed that model. I'm in Texas and we're not progressive at all in this realm; or many other realms when comparing to a progressive state like Washington.
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6. conductr ◴[29 Jun 21 17:37 UTC] No.27679186{3}[source]▶
Yes. The discussions I've seen from waiter expectations like you mention is what has soured me the most on tipping.

Also, I don't feel like my check size is very related to the amount of work involved. At least in my 95% use case of 2-4 people. The waiter does the same thing, checks in on us just as much, still juggling 5-10 other tables. I'm there for an hour. I just don't see $15-30 of value in the service I got during my interaction (my typical check size is $50-100), that's where I land back on my 15% standard. I don't always see that value either, but it's what helps me sleep at night.

If I'm with 5+ people or stay longer than an hour or am eating at a higher priced place where waiter is probably serving fewer tables simultaneously then I adjust accordingly.

Another irk of mine is how alcohol falls into this equation. If I buy a $50 bottle of wine I'm supposed to give $10 tip when usually all they do is open the bottle? My rule is a dollar per serving. It's probably outdated rule and needs some adjustment for inflation as that's been my rule for a long time.

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7. FalconSensei ◴[29 Jun 21 18:39 UTC] No.27679969[source]▶
> Why not just bring cash to tip

If the point is not to keep calculating the tip, that's worse. And then we would need to wait to get the change on the tip?

8. brewdad ◴[29 Jun 21 21:57 UTC] No.27682273[source]▶
Pre-pandemic, some restaurants in my area started adding separate tip lines for servers and kitchen staff. While nice in theory as a way to recognize the work they do it left me feeling confused more than anything. Am I still expected to tip 15-20% or more to the server AND an additional amount to the rest of the staff? Do I split my regular tip amongst both lines? If so, 50-50 or some other breakdown.

In the end, I left my usual tip to the server and zero to the rest and left it for them to figure out, just like in every other restaurant on the planet. Servers make full, much higher than Federal minimum wage in my state plus tips, so really we should be abolishing tipping at this point IMO.

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9. brewdad ◴[29 Jun 21 22:02 UTC] No.27682345{4}[source]▶
You are still expected to tip the same as other states with the $2.13 minimum for tipped employees. In fact, you should be tipping more, so goes the rule of thumb, since cost of living is higher.
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10. msrenee ◴[29 Jun 21 22:38 UTC] No.27682666[source]▶
I'm pretty sure most patrons would not be comfortable with the server losing money for something they have no control over. I'm certainly not going to refuse to tip them to make some kind of statement that only punishes them.

I guess I don't know how you go from the idea that you are accomplishing nothing while making someone else's day worse to being able to say "not my problem" and go on with your life.

I would much rather they were paid a fair wage. But I'm not going to voice my opinion on that matter by refusing to give them the money that I personally factor in as part of a meal anyway. I get where you're coming from, but I don't see how this method of addressing it is intended to accomplish anything.

11. zfxfr ◴[30 Jun 21 10:51 UTC] No.27687052{3}[source]▶
"just like in every other restaurant on the planet"

You mean just like every restaurant in USA. I rarely tip in France, only if I had a really special interaction with the waiter/waitress. Once it was because the waitress was a student we chit chat a bit and ended up talking programming (!). I never tipped once in China (nobody does it there)

12. snypher ◴[30 Jun 21 13:49 UTC] No.27688477{4}[source]▶
>It's probably outdated rule and needs some adjustment for inflation

Honestly if the minimum wage was increased appropriately we wouldn't have to bother with tipping at all.

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13. brokenmachine ◴[01 Jul 21 00:31 UTC] No.27695114[source]▶
>Not tipping doesn't accomplish anything and the server who has no control over the system and is already underpaid gets screwed over.

What a curious statement, American Stockholm Syndrome in full effect.

I'm in Australia and tipping is only really done in the case of exceptional service. The price on the menu is the price you pay. Nobody feels animosity towards someone who pays the price on the menu, and nobody feels guilt for "only" paying the price that was specified.

Also nobody would expect sub-par service or to be disparaged if they don't pay more, as sibling commenters have mentioned.

Much simpler for everyone - why should customers have to do convoluted maths to work out how much to subsidize a business that can't afford to pay their workers? That is pretty much the definition of an unviable business.

14. brokenmachine ◴[01 Jul 21 00:50 UTC] No.27695225{5}[source]▶
This is the real problem. Unfortunately big business has politicians by the balls, so this is unlikely to happen.

Billionaires get tax breaks while the lowest-paid workers buying power goes down every year without fail.

And no guillotines because they're all too busy trying to keep their head above water. GG billionaires.

15. conductr ◴[02 Jul 21 14:33 UTC] No.27712025{5}[source]▶
In Washington? I don't recall that being the case. I was there around the time they converted about 5 years ago and there were signs everywhere saying that the prices may seem high because they pay their people a living wage. I have to assume that means living wage locally. If waitstaff is wanting a regular tip now, it's just a naturally greedy thing to want as much compensation as you can get. Have their cake and eat it too. American's are passive on this in general and don't negotiate well (we're not used to it). So I think we tend to feel guilted into sheepish behavior instead of challenging the "rule of thumb". The reality is, some jobs just aren't meant to earn big bucks. I support a minimum wage, but you also have to realize that means minimum lifestyle.