Most active commenters
  • lupire(3)
  • ineedasername(3)

←back to thread

1743 points caspii | 29 comments | | HN request time: 1.17s | source | bottom
Show context
ilamont ◴[] No.27428272[source]
Same story for various Wordpress plugins and widgety things that live in site footers.

Google has turned into a cesspool. Half the time I find myself having to do ridiculous search contortions to get somewhat useful results - appending site: .edu or .gov to search strings, searching by time periods to eliminate new "articles" that have been SEOed to the hilt, or taking out yelp and other chronic abusers that hijack local business results.

replies(19): >>27428410 #>>27428439 #>>27428441 #>>27428466 #>>27428594 #>>27428652 #>>27428717 #>>27428807 #>>27429076 #>>27429483 #>>27429797 #>>27429818 #>>27429843 #>>27429859 #>>27430023 #>>27430207 #>>27430285 #>>27430707 #>>27430783 #
1. XorNot ◴[] No.27428594[source]
Also phone problems: Google a problem with a phone and the top hit will be a whole bunch of churned out articles with generic copy on the cause (sometimes there are bugs in the software, so reboot your phone).
replies(1): >>27428715 #
2. duskwuff ◴[] No.27428715[source]
Any technical issue, really. There's a ton of autogenerated content out there with low-effort troubleshooting tips. A lot of it is used as lead generation for scammy antivirus/antimalware/"cleaner" software, paid tech support, or outright tech support scams.
replies(4): >>27428831 #>>27429722 #>>27429760 #>>27430638 #
3. initplus ◴[] No.27428831[source]
These results are incredibly frustrating. Google should de-rank these autogenerated tech troubleshooting sites.

Yes, I clicked the link because it exactly referenced my issue. But it's not helpful to just see the same 5 tips copy pasted from elsewhere by an algorithm.

replies(2): >>27429606 #>>27430181 #
4. ◴[] No.27429606{3}[source]
5. toeget ◴[] No.27429722[source]
That's why I append reddit, stackoverflow, superuser when I search for technical solutions. At least those sites are still full of user-generated content with good answers upvoted to the top.
replies(1): >>27429774 #
6. PoignardAzur ◴[] No.27429760[source]
The last few weeks I've started noticing a very specific type of SEO that pops up when I'm doing technical search, where the first page will be a Stack Overflow result, and the 3rd or 4th result will be from some content farm, copy-pasted from SO, sometimes translated in French.

It's a little unsettling.

replies(3): >>27429986 #>>27430312 #>>27430366 #
7. PoignardAzur ◴[] No.27429774{3}[source]
You know, I was joking the last few times the subject came up, but I'm getting seriously worried that the more people mention using that kind of trick on HN, the faster advertisers will catch on and start building reddit-based SEO strategies.

Not sure how we should react :/

replies(3): >>27430059 #>>27430344 #>>27430510 #
8. ihnorton ◴[] No.27429986{3}[source]
It can be worse than that when those sites get a full multi-line result billing whereas the original stackoverflow answer gets a single-line subheading under some other SO result.
9. Camillo ◴[] No.27430059{4}[source]
Oh, it's no secret. Google's autocomplete will actually suggest appending "reddit" to certain queries. For example, let's take one of the most SEO-spammy queries imaginable, "best mattress 2021". Google will suggest:

- best mattress 2021

- best mattress 2021 consumer reports

- best mattress 2021 reddit

- best mattress 2021 for back pain

- best mattress 2021 wirecutter

etc.

But of course Reddit is already rife with shills. Not sure about CR.

replies(2): >>27430122 #>>27430305 #
10. sixothree ◴[] No.27430122{5}[source]
I remember in the late 2000's I had a CR account. I had two weeks left on the period I had paid for. But when I cancelled the account... poof. My access was revoked immediately. Very much not consumer friendly. I was done enough with their crap that I didn't even bother with an email.
replies(2): >>27430200 #>>27430914 #
11. minikites ◴[] No.27430181{3}[source]
>These results are incredibly frustrating. Google should de-rank these autogenerated tech troubleshooting sites.

Why? Google makes money from advertisements either way, it's not in their interest to improve search results. If anything, terrible search results make users more likely to click on ads, which now look better by comparison.

replies(2): >>27430296 #>>27430481 #
12. Gracana ◴[] No.27430200{6}[source]
FWIW I signed up for CR recently when I was car shopping, and I canceled my subscription within the first month. They assured me that I would still have access for the remainder of the period. Of course, you're forced to subscribe rather than buy access for a set period, and they sent me a couple dozen emails during the time I was signed up, so they're not completely innocent... but at least that part felt reasonable.
13. lupire ◴[] No.27430296{4}[source]
The entire reason Google is the most successful search engine is that people don't use search engines that behave this way.
replies(1): >>27430955 #
14. lupire ◴[] No.27430305{5}[source]
Don't search for "best". That's specifically requesting spam.
replies(1): >>27430904 #
15. lupire ◴[] No.27430312{3}[source]
That's a years old scam, but occasionally a new site pops through Google's filters.
replies(1): >>27430962 #
16. eyelidlessness ◴[] No.27430344{4}[source]
Prefer resources that have some governance and aren’t entirely crowdsourced. For example if I’m looking for web tech answers my first search is ‘[whatever topic] mdn’.
17. eyelidlessness ◴[] No.27430366{3}[source]
If you start getting a little esoteric in your searches you’ll get tons of results that are clearly crawled from personal blogs, and hosted on personal-blog-looking domains that redirect to godawful garbage. Especially bad on mobile because Google truncates the URLs.
18. ineedasername ◴[] No.27430481{4}[source]
Google became very popular very quickly because it gave much better results much faster. The more that Google allows quality to decline, the faster they approach a non-recoverable tipping point. Just ask Yahoo how quickly that can happen. Google may seem entrenched, but they have a shaky hold on search that is only as strong as its result quality. They are entrenched in advertising, but only because that's where searchers go to search.

Users may be entrenched in other Google products-- Gmail, gcal, docs, etc-- but not search. Someone using all those other Google products could change their default search engine and have zero impact on the rest of their digital life.

I'm shopping around for a preferred alternative right now, I just haven't settled yet.

replies(2): >>27430671 #>>27434392 #
19. na85 ◴[] No.27430510{4}[source]
Reddit has been gamed by guerilla advertisers for years, everyone knows it, and the admins there don't seem to care/are unable to do anything about it.

r/HailCorporate used to be about calling out stealth marketing/advertising but it's morphed into just discussing how things can inadvertently act as an advertisement aka society is full of branding and consumerism. It's a shame because it used to be a very high quality sub.

20. bashtoni ◴[] No.27430638[source]
I keep getting results to a site 'gitmemory.com' which is just GitHub issues scraped. Super annoying that they outrank the actual GitHub issues they've taken the content from.
replies(1): >>27430968 #
21. kevin_thibedeau ◴[] No.27430671{5}[source]
That was pre-IPO Google. That company doesn't exist anymore. Money is their God now. Every Googlers high salary depends on it.
replies(1): >>27431154 #
22. ehnto ◴[] No.27430904{6}[source]
I use colloquial language to try and target actual human reviews on forums. "Are audio-technica any good?"

Mostly works, but Google drops keywords pretty quickly now so you still get lots of spam or shopping sites.

23. abawany ◴[] No.27430914{6}[source]
I've been trying to unsubscribe from CR email spam for months now to no avail. Looking at the browser tools, it seems that their api can't handle the fact that I registered with a single letter first/last name so therefore my attempts to unsubscribe silently fail. There also appears to be no way to change my name since the api for that also fails on the single letter first/last name. I wish ungood things to happen to the people who 'designed' this Kafkaesque rubbish and in the meantime, thank GMail's mark-as-spam feature for throwing away their unrelenting pablum to the memory hole. This experience has led to me canceling my print subscription to CR plus my donations to their organization.
24. MiguelX413 ◴[] No.27430955{5}[source]
They obviously do use search engines, like Google, that behave this way.
25. kuschku ◴[] No.27430962{4}[source]
I haven't gotten real SO as google result in years, only those content farms, constantly. Nowadays the same even happens for github issues, they're also mostly outranked by content farms copying from them.

If I search on mobile, often all my results are these content farms. (Google used in English from Germany)

26. sdoering ◴[] No.27430968{3}[source]
How is this not just spam and duplicate content. I remember when I was punished by G for duplicate content on my very small private blog when I was using jekyll and had the markdown sources and the code stored in GitHub. I didn't know of the canonical tag back than and was punished because the GitHub domain had more trust.

It is sad, bit nowadays I often just directly jump onto page 3 at Google or use other "tricks" to get okayish results.

27. ineedasername ◴[] No.27431154{6}[source]
Yep, not disagreeing. My point is that a short term pursuit of money over at least a reasonable quality of search will destroy what they have built very quickly if quality gets low enough to make it easy for an upstart rival to have obviously better search results. And the evidence for that is in the history of their own rise to search dominance.,
28. minikites ◴[] No.27434392{5}[source]
>The more that Google allows quality to decline, the faster they approach a non-recoverable tipping point. Just ask Yahoo how quickly that can happen.

Do you think we're in the same situation now as we were fully 20 years ago? I don't. Facebook killed MySpace, but Facebook is now too big to be disrupted, same with Google. The word "google" is a verb now. This is why the quality of their search results doesn't matter, people are too entrenched to switch now, which was not true in 2001.

replies(1): >>27435017 #
29. ineedasername ◴[] No.27435017{6}[source]
With respect to getting users to switch, Facebook and MySpace are much more complicated services in terms of user interactions and the need for network effects. It is literally a text box you type into, and it's usefulness does not directly depend on how many other people use it.

In that respect, not much has changed in 20 years. Switching your search bar is a very low friction activity, and if quality of results is too low then people will look elsewhere. There's only so many times someone will tolerate seeing the exact same copy/paste useless answers to questions as most of the first page of results.

-#-#-#-#-#-#-

In General:

The tech industry is filled with examples of companies that had an entrenched product end up failing very rapidly. I think Google probably understands this well enough to ensure search quality remains better than a scrappy under funded startup can accomplish, but then again Google achieved search dominance by coming up with a different way to determine results, relevancy, etc. There's no reason to believe that someone couldn't come up with something superior now either.

I think the most significant threat to that possibility is 1) FAANG companies buying up many of the most talented people. 2) If a competitor did come along, buying them up as well.

But it's also hard to predict the anti-trust future. Microsoft had an extremely long run as the most dominant web browser for longer than Chrome has held that crown, but they got knocked down very quickly. I doubt that would have happened as easily if not for their anti-trust issues. Of course it doesn't help that IE grew into a slow bloated mess, but in that respect, refer back to what I said about search quality: Microsoft was entrenched, if sliding, in the browser space even after its anti trust issues, but it let it's quality slip too much for users to accept. Given viable options, users switched.

That switch was truly remarkable due to the much higher friction. IE still cam bundled with Windows, Chrome did not. Every home computer with Chrome requires a user to ignore the option right in front of them and choose Chrome instead. Now just think about how much easier it is to use a different search engine.

I'm not saying Google is doomed, but 20 years of market dominance guarantees nothing. The "big 3" US automakers owned the market for longer than Google's founders have been alive, but those days are now just another cautionary tale of poor quality and unassailable arrogance.