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TSMC looks to double down on U.S. chip factories as talks in Europe falter

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437 points adventured | 5 comments | 15 May 21 00:49 UTC | HN request time: 0.63s | source
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neonological ◴[15 May 21 01:31 UTC] No.27161465[source]▶
You guys ever wonder why they don't choose California? These factories have huge environmental impacts that California is not okay with. These factories produce massive amounts of waste that cannot be recycled. This is also very likely to be the same exact reason as to why these talks didn't go so well in Europe.

Arizona like Texas is more business friendly at the expense of not looking out for the well being of people who live in these locations. Ironically, right now by being more business friendly more people want to move to places like Arizona or Texas for jobs.

It's a strange balancing act that has a lot of potential for being over corrected for. Industry brings business and economic growth but ruins the environment and has harms the people living in the area. The insidious thing is environmental costs are paid for much much later.

The consequences of being way to business friendly in these places may only be apparent a decade from now just like how the price of being too business unfriendly is now very apparent in California.

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epistasis ◴[15 May 21 01:40 UTC] No.27161511[source]▶
I don't really like the euphemism of "business friendly" when it means "companies don't have to pay for their externalities."

California is extremely entrepreneur-friendly, and have absolutely massive amounts of business compare to Arizona or Texas.

The externalities are not minor either, there are 23 superfund sites in Santa Clara county from Silicon Valley's early years, where they did not bother to properly dispose of waste:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/09/silic...

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neonological ◴[15 May 21 01:52 UTC] No.27161564[source]▶
>California is extremely entrepreneur-friendly, and have absolutely massive amounts of business compare to Arizona or Texas.

I don't know if you've been following the news lately of a bunch of companies moving OUT of California to Texas. One of these people is Elon Musk. And guess what? I have a source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez90rXhMWjE

I'm not saying California is wrong. Far from it. They're right. These laws are made to protect the people. Like you said, it's not minor at all. I never said it was minor.

However ANY state can decide that economic growth is more important than environmental safety and short term health of its' citizens and make a strategic move to make it's own location much more attractive to business.

So the costs aren't clear. Do we want an economic wasteland or an environmental wasteland? This is my point. California is not dead yet, but the trends have been pointing in this direction for years.

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scsilver ◴[15 May 21 04:01 UTC] No.27162232[source]▶
California is one of the most economically richest places on earth, and I only say that from the point of view of a world traveler and without bias.
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1. neonological ◴[15 May 21 05:01 UTC] No.27162541[source]▶
What I don't understand is how you think world traveler gives any credit or support for your stance. First the stronger point is made through evidence and the weaker point is made through reputation. Second of all, a "world traveler" is not really much of a reputable status that lends any additional weight to your thesis.

California is rich. But California is trending down economically. This has been increasing for a decade and accelerated due to covid. Here's the point of view from an economist without bias: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2IVj_T6y84

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2. ◴[15 May 21 13:10 UTC] No.27164872[source]▶
3. epistasis ◴[15 May 21 15:35 UTC] No.27166138[source]▶
> But California is trending down economically. This has been increasing for a decade and accelerated due to covid.

Is there some sort of higher-information content article or video you can post than that YouTube video? It's a slow roll out of rather basic history with some unsubstantiated claims thrown in in the first 6 minutes, and I'm not going to waste any more time on that.

Particularly when it's talking about an "economic downturn" without stating any support for that. I know this video was made 7 months ago, and that sort of unsubstantiated claim gained lots of traction with right-wingers, but it was a completely false rumor. California's economy is killing it, and our largely income-tax-based government is swimming in an unprecedented surplus because of how incredibly resilient California was when other areas were hurting.

That leads to the second egregious unsupported claim in the first few minutes: "California was particularly hard hit by the globally economic downturn"--no it wasn't and that was a preposterous statement to make, even 7 months ago, California was doing great and there was absolutely no reason to think it was doing worse.

California is not a perfect paradise; we are weirdly focused on keeping people out of the state, which means that people without land or without high incomes are continuously forced out. But the economic engine continues on as we do this.

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4. neonological ◴[15 May 21 16:45 UTC] No.27166765[source]▶
Why don't you watch that video again with less biased eyes. The video never ever even mentioned California was in an economic downturn. It said California was going through economic turbulence and called it a bump in the road in the first few minutes.

I recommend you watch that video despite it's length. It's much more digestible then raw statistical data and scientific papers. The YouTuber is an economist and his views are spot on. Specifically the part on hotel California is very very accurate.

The guy even mentions that CA has one of the largest economies in the world if it was classified as a country, so he's not actually attacking your team here.

You keep making the same mistake on thinking that the video and I are making the claim that California is in an economic downturn. Nobody ever said California is in an economic downturn. If anything California could be in an economic bubble. Keyword: could.

California is not a perfect paradise. That would be a delusional view. We can agree that California is definitely a successful economy. To think that successful economies are infallible would be an equally delusional view.

I also suggest you try to get away from this team California mentality. You may live in the state you may love the state you may have been born in the state like I was. But your analysis of what's happening must remain impartial. That means analyzing the possibility of economic apocalypse rather then closing all YouTube videos that even mention anything negative about California.

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5. ◴[15 May 21 23:20 UTC] No.27169841{3}[source]▶