Signal adds a payments feature with a privacy-focused cryptocurrency

The UK already has faster payments in all major banks. I can send and receive money instantly from app or Web. Will yours be as fast as that?

The UK has a problem with authorised push payment fraud. Banks can recover funds which have been sent as a result of phishing / fraud. How can I reverse a payment on your platform if it was fraudulent?

The UK also has receiver verification. If I try to send to an account and it doesn't match the name I'm sending to, my bank will warn me. How do you stop impersonation?

There's no cost to sending payments on most mainstream banks. How much do you charge?

Most banks let the user block receiving payments from specific accounts. How do you stop harassers sending unwanted money?

Thanks!

>>The UK already has faster payments in all major banks. I can send and receive money instantly from app or Web. Will yours be as fast as that?

A: MobileCoin is as fast (or faster in some cases) than a bank payment in the UK with greater privacy. As far as settling back to Fiat, if that's what you're asking about, the velocity of that depends on on-ramp and off-ramp integrations which will come over time (but it looks like there's no reason MobileCoin can't help developers deliver payments at the same speed as banks).

>>The UK has a problem with authorised push payment fraud. Banks can recover funds which have been sent as a result of phishing / fraud. How can I reverse a payment on your platform if it was fraudulent?

A: Payments on MobileCoin cannot be reversed at the protocol level. If you want escrow and reversibility, you should use a wallet or payment service that supports those primitives. We believe that developers will build such services on top of the foundation of the MobileCoin protocol.

>>The UK also has receiver verification. If I try to send to an account and it doesn't match the name I'm sending to, my bank will warn me. How do you stop impersonation?

A: Signal relies on phone numbers for identities. Other apps that integrate MobileCoin may have a higher threshold for identification.

>>There's no cost to sending payments on most mainstream banks. How much do you charge?

A: Fees are set by the foundation (which has a stated goal of keeping transaction fees to around $.04 when the network isn't congested). Currently fees are higher as they need to be adjusted by a foundation vote.

>>Most banks let the user block receiving payments from specific accounts. How do you stop harassers sending unwanted money?

A: Signal doesn't allow people you haven't keypaired with to send you funds. If you have accepted a message request from someone, they can send you money.

This was my question too. I don’t really understand why the U.K. was chosen as the initial market. At least in the U.S. people are used to venmo and suchlike being services they might use. My guess is that either the cryptocurrency people are based in the U.K. or that whoever is in charge is viewing the country as something like America but easier to get started (anglophone but smaller market for testing or easier regulations or less competition) however I don’t think the U.K. is a good substitute for America in this case.

The one venmo-like thing people do use a lot in the U.K. is probably something like revolut for dealing with different currencies and international transfers (either for travel in Europe or for migrant workers sending earnings abroad for family or retirement). But a service that’s only available in the U.K. isn’t much use for that.

I also personally don’t really see the privacy use. I think I’m willing to give up a reasonably large amount of private information about the people on either side of a transaction if it is effective at reducing fraud and making transactions reversible.

> Most banks let the user block receiving payments from specific accounts. How do you stop harassers sending unwanted money?

First time I read about that, how does this work in practice? A person regularly sends you small amounts such that all you see is their name whenever you log into your bank account?

> How do you stop harassers sending unwanted money?

idk, but this sounds like a great problem to have.

I wouldn’t want to be barraged with messages from spammers because they’re sending me $.0001

Not really. Someone steals money, sends them to you, your are having lots of trouble proving you are not an accomplice. If you are a government official, you can be framed as receiving a bribe.

In russia government can send your organisation money from abroad via an agent and then shut you down as a 'foreign agent'.

> In russia government can send your organisation money from abroad via an agent and then shut you down as a 'foreign agent'.

They could do this with traditional banking systems as well. Presumably the Russian government has a high degree of surveillance with regard to their domestic banks like every other nation in the world has. Creating a false financial trail is made slightly easier with crypto currencies, but for a nation state it's not hard to do with traditional banking systems.

Heads up, it would be useful on HN if you were to disclose your affiliations / interests when posting, especially about something like a cryptocurrency you helped design.

It gives readers a better sense of your ability to answer the questions accurately, in addition to letting people make assessments based on the potential conflict of interest.

Also, responding here and inviting discussion on a technical level is possibly the best thing you can do for perception of Mob, because this is a forum where those questions are likely to get asked.

Edit: I see you've done that in another post on this thread. Since we don't have anything like flair it would also help people who don't read the whole thread.

Creating a false trail is far more difficult than asking some scoundrel send 100 euro while vacationing in Italy or Spain. Also, for a FSB operative it is an opportunity to go to spain to 'supervise' the operation, lol.

Yes, this originally was a child comment to the thread where I identified myself as the MobileCoin CEO. Dang merged two threads and this got separated from the top-level comment.

Accepting unwanted money from someone can have serious consequences in many cases. In some cases it is illegal - for example, accepting certain types of political donations.

In cases where you've been sent unwanted money your obligation is typically to return it, but that specific type of use-case is often not considered when people design things. If you end up in a situation where anyone can send you money and you can't return it, you're in big trouble because the sender might be causing you to unintentionally get involved in a violation of the law and leave you without any method to undo it.

Who is in the foundation and what does the governance look like? Is there a plan to expand governance to the community?

I know the next question is signal specific but do you have any details on how they'll maintain privacy for pegging which is likely just to require an on/off ramp. Surely this is just no better if the majority of transactions have an associated log on an exchange?

America has AML and KYC and running an exchange that allows trades which dodge those requirements is a great path to men in black suits knocking on your door.

How do they prove they sent it to you?

Does the UK not have AML and KYC?

So if these folks can make an address or wallet or however it works, auto-reject everything under X...

I myself will take all the spam you can send at 50 cents per message. ( I already sort about $200 worth of free spam daily at that rate)

I can imagine some other folks could set them at min 5 dollars per attached message and get use of such a thing.

Now wonders if an email layer can be added to transactions with this coin and a reply that can serve other digital assets..

patreon without the fees? onlyfans without the (insert their cut plus visa/mc cut here) - email with little to no spam..

I'm ready to help make this a thing.

MobileCoin transactions and balances are private and untraceable. This problem doesn't exist here.

Think again. A criminal sends you a known amount of money, then you are seized and phone is searched, and you receive the exact amount of money a criminal had sent you.

Yes, there are stringent anti-money laundering laws in the UK.

Amongst other things it's a way to set up a narrative regarding some other fraudulent activity.

If you were regularly recieving money from someone, then it looks like you're in business with them - and you'd have a hard time pricing you're not if they then staged some other activities (i.e. shipping you stolen goods, which they then have stolen from your doorstep by an associate).

Prove? we are talking about Russia here.

Not really. A friend of a friend had this issue and it was a huge pain.

Yes. In the UK you can send a payment reference alongside the payment.

Imagine getting a dozen messages saying

£0.01 From: Your Stalker Ex. Ref: I just want you back!

Or similar. It's a real problem.

Then ignore it? How is this a problem when this person is stalking you in the first place?