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1005 points femfosec | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.481s | source
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DoreenMichele ◴[] No.26613077[source]
I'm really glad to see this here. I don't have a better word readily available than sexism for trying to talk about patterns like this but when I use the word sexism, I think people think I mean "Men are intentionally exclusionary assholes just to be assholes because they simply hate women." and that's never what I'm trying to say.

I find my gender is a barrier to getting traction and my experience is that it's due to patterns of this sort and not because most men intentionally want me to fail. But the cumulative effect of most men erring on the side of protecting themselves and not wanting to take risks to engage with me meaningfully really adds up over time and I think that tremendously holds women back generally.

I think gendered patterns of social engagement also contributed to the Theranos debacle. I've said that before and I feel like it tends to get misunderstood as well. (Though in the case of Theranos it runs a lot deeper in that she was actually sleeping with an investor.)

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Thorentis ◴[] No.26614401[source]
What is described in the article isn't sexism - it's fear. Fear of being labeled as a sexist.
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awb ◴[] No.26615692[source]
It’s probably both.

The men are assuming based on the female founder’s gender _alone_ that she might accuse him of sexism.

Regardless of how rational this fear is, they are stereotyping new female founders they’re meeting for the first time based on what an X% of other female founder’s have done in the past.

For the men, it’s probably a risk/reward calculation. Keep your head down and be polite and have ~0% chance of being accused of sexism. Or, speak up and maybe ruffle some feathers and have a ~X% chance of being accused of sexism.

You can see the problem on both sides of the equation, but withholding advice based on gender alone does meet the definition of sexism, regardless of the intentions of self-protection rather than hate.

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golergka ◴[] No.26615877[source]
> The men are assuming based on the female founder’s gender _alone_ that she might accuse him of sexism.

Well, I think that unlike women or bin-binary people, a man wouldn't be able of accusing another man of sexism in his direction.

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1. awb ◴[] No.26615915[source]
You can accuse people of anything. I think maybe what you’re saying is that a man accusing another man of being sexist against men would be far less believable.

Regardless, we’re talking about social judgements. In a legal setting the burden of proof would be on the accuser.

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2. incompatible ◴[] No.26616584[source]
Presumably, since a man complaining about a woman getting special treatment "because she is a woman" would hardly be unprecedented.
3. kelnos ◴[] No.26617035[source]
The legal setting doesn't matter. In these cases the damage is done reputationally, in the court of public opinion, well before any legal matters come into play.

And like many legal outcomes, just being accused is its own stigma. Someone accused of murder but then later (let's say objectively, truthfully, correctly) found not guilty will expect to face social discrimination and alienation. It's not right, but it's unfortunately how people operate.