Apple has threatened to remove Amphetamine from the App Store

Incredibly insensitive product naming.

I’m guessing the software authors don’t have children and don’t have multiple friends and family who’s lives have been destroyed by meth.

Instead it’s just a bro having cool fun with words “hey keeps your computer awake! Get it? Ha! So clever!”

Maybe they have a child with ADHD whose life was saved by amphetamines?

Amphetamine and metamphetamine (meth) are two different things.

You didn't read the post, did you?

Please go and read the post. Especially the following section: https://github.com/x74353/SaveAmphetamine#what-arguments-can...

The App is named Amphetamine and not Meth which imho is a big difference.

Your username has its uses too.

Not bad for a night out although not really to my taste.

Take it easy, it was named after an older similar app, Caffeine.

It’s a clever name because it rhymes and they’re both stimulants. That’s all.

You're the one who brought up meth.

Amphetamine isn't meth.

Looks like it's you that has the meth obsession. Shouldn't you be ashamed with yourself for having used the word? What about all the people whose children's lives have been destroyed by meth? Shouldn't you delete your comment?

Also can you please link me to a study that shows a causal link between names of apps, and an increase in usage in that drug the app is named after?

And then one that shows an increase in usage in a different drug (because again, amphetamine is not meth)?

I'd really, really like to read that study.

Presumably you want to ban WINE too, because of all the people who know someone who was an alcoholic? Have you written to the WINE maintainers telling them how evil they are?

You pointing out semantics makes zero difference to how I feel about meth/amphetamines and how regardless of semantics these are insensitive product names.

When I hear “Amphetamine” I instantly think if they people I know who’s lives have been destroyed, but you feel I’m mistaken and you’ve got a good argument against my line of thinking.

Telling me how to think.

It's a successor of the (now-defunct) caffeine app which did mostly the same thing.

Given that most other coffee names were already taken, I can understand the logic of why they chose the name.

As you said though, it is now considered by many to be insensitive. So Apple it's probably in the right here.

I'm sure they would welcome suggestions on how to rebrand.

So they are insensitive to you. But this does not generalize because knowing many meth addicts does not generalize either.

Meth is amphetamine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Amphetamine is what our drug companies use to make medication for those suffering with ADHD. I think you have watched too much Breaking Bad.

No, meth is an amphetamine. Meth is not amphetamine, amphetamine is a different molecule.

To quote Stephen Fry on what I think of your argument: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzdpxKqEUAw

How you feel has no bearing on altering the fabric of chemistry or reality.

Amphetamine is not meth and no amount of crying will change that.

Nor does someone naming an app "amphetamine" cause an increase in drug usage.

Sort of? It's more like a derivative (has an extra methyl group) and it's far more potent. So it would not be correct to say it "is amphetamine".

Amphetamine is a general term as well as a proper noun. Both are valid and widely accepted meanings.

Meth is amphetamine.

Were you one of those German soldiers issued Meth during WW2 to help them fight longer and with less human emotion? Cause that’s all I think about when you talk about meth destroying lives.

Yeah sure, meth is an amphetamine.

Just like how the hydrocortisone I’m using for my eczema is a steroid, yet it would be unwise to confuse it with Winstrol or Dianabol.

> Also can you please link me to a study that shows a causal link between names of apps, and an increase in usage in that drug the app is named after?

How about this one? Considering that the app also has a picture of a pill as a logo, I think it would be ill-advised for former addicts to have the app installed. https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00213-004-1828-4

Also have this blog post from psychology today https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/all-about-addiction/...

This is simply technically incorrect as many people are pointing out to you. There is a named molecule called "amphetamine" short for alpha-methylphenethylamine, it has a unique IUPAC name ((RS)-1-phenylpropan-2-amine).

Methamphetamine is a derivative in the class of amphetamines (amphetamines being the family that was originally established by amphetamine). I know that's confusing. But, it has its own chemical structure, N-methylamphetamine, which is chemically distinct (yet extremely similar).

If your point is 'meth is an amphetamine', that's fine but it doesn't strengthen your arguments.

By your logic nobody should be able to call their app "lemonade" since it's a drink and some people are alcoholics

What about all the people with ADHD, eating disorders, and other problems whose lives have been saved due to amphetamine?

Also I take it you'll be demanding the removal of WINE from all package managers due to the existence of alcoholics?

In the context of illegal/recreational usage, not really. Chemically they are similar, and affect the body in pretty much an identical way. Methamphetamine metabolizes to amphetamine. Methamphetamine has more potent effects for the same dose. And of course street meth is a crap-shoot.

My only argument is that it’s reasonable for the GP to say that meth is amphetamine, even if it’s grammatically more correct to say an amphetamine.

It’s basically bullshit to dismiss what they were saying on the basis of this pedantry.

Amphetamine is a structural class.

It’s also clearly true that people not versed in chemistry associate meth with amphetamine.

What’s ‘technically’ correct to a chemist really isn’t relevant to this debate.

We wouldn’t generally argue that it’s incorrect to say that champagne is wine, even though it’s more technically accurate to say that champagne is a wine.

In the case of amphetamine, we feel the need to make the distinction more strongly because the word has two meanings.

This is only true for those of use who are aware of the presence of both meanings.

Those who think of amphetamine as a class and don’t distinguish it from the substance are not wrong. They are just less precise.

Ketamine for treatment resistant depression. We've got to kick the mind expansion folks out though. They are going to ruin everything like Timothy Leary ruined LSD.

It's not a problem with grammar when the "incorrect" grammar changes the whole meaning of something. No one would be jumping on the comment if it had said, "meth is a amphetamine," which has the same meaning despite the incorrect grammar. Removing the "an" completely changes the meaning.

This should be clear?

It only completely changes the meaning for someone technically versed. Most people are not.

This should be clear?

A lot of people are going to think of meth when they see the word amphetamine. Likely most people.

Sorry, but I can't support recreational use when I have a legitimate medical need. It makes the activism too complicated.

That's the problem I guess. Some people will abuse it, then everyone will be denied access to it because of them.

I agree, but the problem is that one idiot overdoses on something and suddenly it's a big deal and it "needs to be banned". This mentality is just a$$-backwards. Use it for whatever you want, don't blame the drug if you suffer side effects.

The relevancy to the debate is established by the meaning of the word. Which is a technical issue. Leaving the definition of a precise term to the whims of layman results in that we can't any longer say if we are talking about the same things.

Look no further then to this very thread.

There is a technical definition and there are lay understandings.

This has always been true. Wouldn’t you say?

Not really, it's pretty confusing and when I worked at a medicinal chemist working on substituted phenethylamines, no one referred to molecules aside from amphetamine proper as "amphetamine".

You are just displaying your ignorance here. Amphetamines are used in medications prescribed for narcolepsy (i.e. unwanted/inappropriate sleepiness), ADHD and obesity.

If you look at this and think of street meth, that's your own problem.

Yes, really. That methyl group makes a big difference. It increases potency, toxicity, absorption rate and overall addictiveness, hence why amph is commonly prescribed, while meth (desoxyn) is reserved for severe narcolepsy.

True.

The end result is that the merge of the two ends up in the dictionary. Perhaps it's time to update the definitions but I doubt that 'amphetamine' will be defined as slang for 'meth' when in fact 'meth' is slang or short for 'methamphetamine'.

I'll just leave this here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categorical_proposition

Yeah - I’m not expecting it to end up as slang.

Just that as a lay term people think of meth as amphetamine in the way that people think of champagne as wine.

Regarding your comments in this thread (the worst of them are currently "dead") and in case you decide to keep posting on HN, you should take a look at the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The guidelines seem very reasonable and beneficial for the discussions, here are some excerpts:

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Have curious conversation; don't cross-examine. Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

> Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

BTW, I don't claim to follow the guidelines perfectly all the time, the reason I'm writing this comment is basically because I would have preferred if you managed to get your point across better.