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Apple Silicon M1 chip in MacBook Air outperforms high-end 16-inch MacBook Pro

(www.macrumors.com)
1080 points antipaul | 32 comments | 12 Nov 20 00:56 UTC | HN request time: 3.181s | source | bottom
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maz1b ◴[12 Nov 20 02:16 UTC] No.25065664[source]▶
This is pretty crazy to see, even if the full story isn't clear yet. A base level MacBook Air is taking the crown of the best MacBook Pro. Wow. SVP Johny Srouji and all of the Apple hardware + silicon team have been smashing it for the past many years.

For what it's worth, I have a fully specced out 16 inch MacBook Pro with the AMD Radeon Pro 5600m and even with that I'm regularly hitting 100% usage of the card, and not to mention the fan noise.

Looking forward to a version from Apple that is made for actual professionals, but I imagine these introductory M1 based devices are going to be great for the vast majority of people.

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1. martinald ◴[12 Nov 20 02:45 UTC] No.25065838[source]▶
Surely a version that can beat a 8 core Xeon is made for 'actual professionals'?
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2. kalleboo ◴[12 Nov 20 02:48 UTC] No.25065858[source]▶
It still has a lot of limitations that matter to many pros - max 16 GB of RAM, max 2 displays (only 1 external for laptops), only enough PCIe lanes to support 2 thunderbolt ports. eGPUs aren't supported either, but hopefully that is a software thing that will be fixed.

It will be very interesting to see what the performance will be of the more "pro" chip that overcomes those limitations that they'd put in the 16" and iMacs

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3. sliken ◴[12 Nov 20 02:50 UTC] No.25065866[source]▶
Dunno, seems like most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram. Or maybe even plug in more than a charging cable and one more device. Or run more than one external monitor.

Doesn't seem very "pro" to me. The MBP16" intel has 4 x USB-c ports, can drive two monitors, and can have >= 32GB ram.

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4. ◴[12 Nov 20 02:51 UTC] No.25065870[source]▶
5. rickbutton ◴[12 Nov 20 03:34 UTC] No.25066109[source]▶
why would it be only 1 external display? Can you not plug into a thunderbolt dock and use multiple external displays? I do exactly that with my 2012 MacBook Pro.
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6. eli ◴[12 Nov 20 03:37 UTC] No.25066136{3}[source]▶
It's a limitation of the M1 chip apparently

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/11/11/how-apple-silicon...

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7. rorykoehler ◴[12 Nov 20 03:49 UTC] No.25066214{3}[source]▶
You can use sidecar with an ipad for a second external display.
replies(1): >>25068254 #
8. sosborn ◴[12 Nov 20 04:03 UTC] No.25066306[source]▶
> most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram.

Again, what definition of "pro" are you using, and how is that relevant to professionals with other occupations?

9. reaperducer ◴[12 Nov 20 04:19 UTC] No.25066390[source]▶
max 2 displays (only 1 external for laptops)

I wonder if that includes AirPlay screens, or just wired.

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10. wlesieutre ◴[12 Nov 20 04:21 UTC] No.25066401[source]▶
Most professionals aren't software developers and don't need to run virtual machines.

But regardless of professional requirements, "Pro" in Apple's product line just means "the more expensive slightly better version." Nobody's arguing that AirPods Pro are the wireless earbuds of choice for people who make money by listening to wireless earbuds.

replies(1): >>25068267 #
11. kalleboo ◴[12 Nov 20 04:28 UTC] No.25066448{3}[source]▶
The embedded GPU doesn't support it
12. grecy ◴[12 Nov 20 04:35 UTC] No.25066490[source]▶
> most professionals would want to use docker, virtual machines, or enough video/data to want more than 16GB ram

I'm a Sofwware Engineer / pro photographer / videographer.

I sling code from time to time, edit thousands of RAW files from my cameras and edit together 1080p footage day in and day out.

I did that for years on a 2013 MBA with 8GB of RAM. Now I have a 2015 MBP with 16GB of RAM. It's perfectly adequate.

replies(1): >>25067690 #
13. jrobn ◴[12 Nov 20 04:41 UTC] No.25066519[source]▶
It’s a first generation chip in a thin-and-light laptop. I suspect all those problems will be fixed as they scale it up. Not to mention their unique position of leverage dedicated acceleration silicon in their software now.
14. simcop2387 ◴[12 Nov 20 04:57 UTC] No.25066601[source]▶
eGPU support will depend on if they have a way to work around the need for a PCIe I/O BAR. Many GPUs require that to initialize and as far as I know no ARM cpus support it since it's a legacy-ish x86 thing. It'll be the same problem that prevents gpu use on raspberry pi 4s still. I bet you can make a controller that'll provide a mapping for that to allow it but that'll mean needing a new enclosure (probably not a huge deal) and new silicon and drivers.
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15. dwaite ◴[12 Nov 20 07:37 UTC] No.25067436{3}[source]▶
I don't quite get how Apple could claim to be Thunderbolt-compatible with this sort of limitation in hardware, though.
replies(1): >>25067877 #
16. syas ◴[12 Nov 20 08:23 UTC] No.25067690{3}[source]▶
Yep. My new work laptop only has 16GB of RAM and it’s never been an issue. I’m usually running half a dozen containers, VS Code, Slack, Brave/Chrome, and a few other things. Maybe our work loads are just computationally lighter than some?

I ordered a 16GB Pro the other day to be my personal dev machine. I’m sure it’ll be more than fine. I’m upgrading from a 2013 8GB Pro which was only just starting to slow me down.

replies(1): >>25068426 #
17. Joeri ◴[12 Nov 20 08:45 UTC] No.25067785{3}[source]▶
This may work. On a 2014 macbook air, which officially only supports only one external display, I've been able to use two external screens at the same time by sharing one through airplay. However, you're always limited in resolution and latency that way.
18. djxfade ◴[12 Nov 20 08:59 UTC] No.25067877{4}[source]▶
It's not a limitation in hardware. It's a legacy feature of the x86 that isn't supported on ARM.

This could be solved by the GPU engineers by removing the legacy compatibility. "Nobody" boots a modern PC from BIOS anymore

19. pjmlp ◴[12 Nov 20 09:55 UTC] No.25068237[source]▶
Apparently I am not a professional, since I don't use docker and leave VMs for servers.
replies(1): >>25068466 #
20. Fnoord ◴[12 Nov 20 09:58 UTC] No.25068254{4}[source]▶
With some iPads. Not all. I was thinking of using an older iPad for this purpose, but alas. Won't work. Too old.
21. Fnoord ◴[12 Nov 20 10:00 UTC] No.25068267{3}[source]▶
Hm, a good VM is one you don't even notice. Say you run Qubes. Not necessarily for development (I would argue Nix is the best OS for DevOps). If all goes well, such an OS becomes very adequate for an average user. For example, a hardware VM could allow you to run a browser more secure.
22. BluePen8 ◴[12 Nov 20 10:01 UTC] No.25068276[source]▶
The MBP16 actually can do 4 displays if they're only 4k displays. It's why I bought one over a MBP13 which can only do 2.

The two limit seems to be for 6016x3384 which I assume is 5k.

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23. kalleboo ◴[12 Nov 20 10:11 UTC] No.25068323{3}[source]▶
I would imagine just wired - it's probably a lack of DisplayPort/HDMI encoders rather than rendering resources.
24. SXX ◴[12 Nov 20 10:16 UTC] No.25068351{3}[source]▶
AMD GPUs work just fine with POWER8 hardware so this is certainly solved.
25. BluePen8 ◴[12 Nov 20 10:28 UTC] No.25068426{4}[source]▶
The code and compilation for me is the light part, and for the most part an hour's worth of essentially text editing for about a moment of compilation anyways.

My resource hogs are slack, mainly the browser, and Zoom calls are apparently the most computationally intensive thing in the world, especially if you screen share while you have an external plugged in.

Memory wise the reason I had to go from 8Gb to 16GB on my personal laptop was literally just for TravisCI.

Honestly, adding external monitors cripples MacBooks pretty quick, even unscaled 2 2k monitors will slow a 2015 15 down significantly (don't try and leave YouTube on either), and it gets worse from there once you start upgrading to 4k monitors. a 2017 15 is good for a 4k and a 2k, and gets a bit slow if you try and go dual 4k.

I planned on looking into eGPU solutions until IT offered me a new Macbook, and I convinced them I needed a 16" Pro.

tldr: External monitors or badly optimized applications (Zoom, YouTube, or browser based CI) will make most MacBooks feel sluggish pretty quick.

replies(1): >>25071013 #
26. sliken ◴[12 Nov 20 10:35 UTC] No.25068466{3}[source]▶
How about using a second monitor?
replies(1): >>25069147 #
27. sliken ◴[12 Nov 20 10:37 UTC] No.25068475{3}[source]▶
Not sure if you mean an Intel MBP 13" or the new MPB 13", but the new arm based MBA and MBP can only do a single monitor.
28. marcan_42 ◴[12 Nov 20 12:36 UTC] No.25069145{3}[source]▶
AMD GPUs do not require I/O BARs, and highly doubt Nvidia ones do either. The VBIOS will probably assume it can use it, but most modern cards can be initialized without actually running the VBIOS (because people use them on headless servers, for virtualization, and things like that). The I/O BAR is only required for legacy VGA compatibility, you can ignore it.
29. pjmlp ◴[12 Nov 20 12:36 UTC] No.25069147{4}[source]▶
I am always on the go, it is a bit hard to carry a second monitor with me.
30. Joeri ◴[12 Nov 20 15:42 UTC] No.25071013{5}[source]▶
Are those displays in scaled mode? Scaled displays tend to perform badly on integrated graphics, and suck up memory, because it has to render a 2x or 3x size internally and then scale down for every frame. Running something that updates the screen constantly, like zoom, probably exacerbates that issue.
31. person8645 ◴[12 Nov 20 18:29 UTC] No.25073005{3}[source]▶
That's the resolution of the Pro Display XDR at 6k. It can run 2.
32. dawnerd ◴[12 Nov 20 20:39 UTC] No.25074660{4}[source]▶
That’s merely speculation as to why.