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292 points kaboro | 8 comments | | HN request time: 1.489s | source | bottom
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parsimo2010 ◴[] No.25059497[source]
I accept that the performance of Apple's chips have increased rapidly in the last few years, but the benchmarks that they are using to compare to various x86 CPUs makes me suspicious that they are cherry-picking benchmarks and aren't telling the whole story (either in the Stratechery article or the Anandtech they got the figures from).

Why am I suspicious? THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY THAT A 5W PART LIKE THE A14 IS FASTER THAN A 100W PART LIKE THE i9-10900k! I understand they are comparing single threaded speed. I'll accept that the A14 is more power efficient. I'll acknowledge that Intel has been struggling lately. But to imply that a low power mobile is straight up faster than a high power chip in any category makes me extremely suspicious that the benchmark isn't actually measuring speed (maybe it's normalizing by power draw), or that the ARM and x86 versions of the benchmark have different reference values (like a 1000 score for an ARM is not the same speed of calculation as a 1000 score on x86). It just can't be true that the tablet with a total price of $1k can hang with a $500 CPU that has practically unlimited size, weight and power compared to the tablet, and when the total price to make it comparable in features (motherboard, power supply, monitor, etc) makes the desktop system more expensive.

Regardless of whether it's an intentional trick or an oversight, I don't think that the benchmark showing the mobile chip is better than a desktop chip in RAW PERFORMANCE is true. And that means that a lot of the conclusions that they draw from the benchmark aren't true. There is no way that the A14 (nor the M1) is going to be faster in any raw performance category than a latest generation and top-spec desktop system.

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zepto ◴[] No.25059551[source]
Anandtech says you are wrong:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16226/apple-silicon-m1-a14-de...

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1. parsimo2010 ◴[] No.25059718[source]
I read that article too and mentioned it in my first sentence. That's the article that Stratechery pulled their figures from. The validity of that article and those benchmarks is what I'm doubting.

Will the new Macbooks with M1 chips compare favorably against Intel laptops with low power and fanless designs? Yeah.

Is the existing A14 chip faster than than a 10900k (even in single threaded performance)? No way. There is something in the benchmark that is messed up to the point where you can't compare them.

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2. yzmtf2008 ◴[] No.25059869[source]
See the neighbor comment. If i7-1165G7 (a 28W part) can be faster than 10900k, there’s no reason M1 couldn’t be faster.
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3. muro ◴[] No.25060398[source]
the question is "for how long" - if it heats up and throttles after a few seconds, desktop CPUs will still have a major advantage for longer tasks.
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4. DeRock ◴[] No.25060670{3}[source]
2/3 devices announced yesterday come with active cooling (MacBook Pro 13" and Mac mini).
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5. barkingcat ◴[] No.25061530{4}[source]
Apple active cooling systems are also not that great, with the six core MBP15" heating and throttling when it was first released, and the MBP 16" also having heating/throttling issues.

The Mac Mini also isn't the paragon of active cooling. I've worked with one of the current gen Intel Mac Minis, and that thing gets really hot! Like 60-80 degrees celcius. The insides must be cooking if the outside is that hot.

The 2013 Mac Pro also had heating design issues, only corrected with the current gen Mac Pro.

I'd say active cooling is a consistent weakness of the entire modern Mac hardware design division.

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6. kergonath ◴[] No.25064113[source]
So you have no idea why, but you are certain they are wrong? There are several sibling comments with lots of reasons why a lower-power core could perform better than an outdated desktop one.
7. fomine3 ◴[] No.25065542{5}[source]
Apple's cooling design isn't great for cooling (maybe great for visual?), but it should be advantage for Apple Silicon compared to Intel CPU on the same Mac.
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8. the_lucifer ◴[] No.25067898{6}[source]
I mean the whole point of Apple Silicon is that since it's all made by Apple they can control how much heat their MacBooks generate now