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1704 points ardit33 | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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mapgrep ◴[] No.24149792[source]
You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate.

But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business to function to some extent?

Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system. I don't think it should be permissible for a company like Apple (or Microsoft or whoever) to sell me a gadget and then use various sorts of locks to try to keep me from putting whatever apps or app stores or services I like on it.

Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing? People would get bad software on their phones, but last I checked, this is happening already, including on iOS. Apple would lose some margin, but last I checked, their investment in creating and maintaining iOS has been handsomely rewarded and would surely continue to be.

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ace_of_spades ◴[] No.24150460[source]
Let‘s take the example of an autonomous car. Would you also argue that you have the right to run any software on it?

Looking a bit further down the line toward a society with more prevalent and powerful AI there will need to be some kind of certification that the software you are running is safe. It will be almost impossible to enforce this without the help of device manufacturers who will be mandated to only run safe software.

I don’t like that there is currently no way to get Apple to reduce its cut due to competitive pressure but mandating a right to run any kind of software people like is very short sighted move that would likely need to be reversed in time if we don’t want to sink into chaos as a society.

What I could imagine as a solution in the long run is a consortium type governing body for the certification of software that is made up of companies, specialists, and government reps. This would allow something like sideloading of approved apps to take place in a controlled way. Question would still be who would pay for this? Do they also take a cut? Do you pay a one time fee? Is it subsidized by taxes? Also could a consortium do this better than the manufacturer itself?

Maybe we end up with sideloading of apps that still need to be approved but for a one time fee rather than a revenue sharing model?

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cblconfederate ◴[] No.24151421[source]
> Would you also argue that you have the right to run any software on it?

Duh, yes. It's like asking if i can drive my (human-driven) car anywhere. Just because it's "technology" doesnt mean all human agency goes out the window.

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1. ace_of_spades ◴[] No.24155075{3}[source]
It seems like you are not thinking things through then. You would at least need to get some kind of certification that your car remains „street legal“. You cannot seriously expect to run any autonomous driving software that you want in your car?
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2. cblconfederate ◴[] No.24155697[source]
obviously the software should have some guarantees, just like cars have safety standards. But those should not be too strict to stifle competition, nor should companies be allowed to say "it s illegal to modify your car's firmware"
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3. ace_of_spades ◴[] No.24156289[source]
And how would you guarantee that the combination of parts that you are combining are safe? This would mean that there would need to be standards throughout the car.

If all of the construction would be modularized with open interfaces, I could imagine something like this working... So, I must admit that it seems theoretically possible to set something like this up but we are currently nowhere near this. Every car is a black box that only the manufacturer really knows. Same for software. What you demand would require all software modules to be “standardized” (think API with safety requirements and guarantees) so that automatic verification could take place.

But what are appropriate “module” sizes? Do we regulate every function call? Just applications? What if Apple sells the iphone plus software as one application? What are generic rules you could use to decide what is the “right” application to regulate? By what mechanisms can we come to good decisions around this?

It’s an interesting vision... but also totally different from the world we live in today. It’s not as simple as you make it sound.