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1704 points ardit33 | 29 comments | | HN request time: 0.424s | source | bottom
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throwaway140820 ◴[] No.24153297[source]
Apologies for the extreme swearing that ensues.

Wow, I would have hoped for better support from the HN community. Instead there are apologists after apologists. So what if Epic is big. Really, seriously shouldn't we have had alternative app stores available form the official ones. Why is this even a point of debate? All the time we hear stories of people one of our own getting fucked by these app stores and their lordship and now that we have an opportunity to make some noise, this is the response? Fuck that. Maybe we deserve these lords.

Fuck your security and fuck your walled gardens. Fucking no alternative browser allowed. Fuck that, fuck you apple and fuck you google. Fuck your monopoly and chokehold on the devs.

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1. throwaway6000 ◴[] No.24153339[source]
1. Apple establishes rules that EVERY app publisher follows for YEARS.

2. Fortnite doesn't follow rule.

3. Apple kicks Fortnite out of the App store.

What were they expecting?

replies(7): >>24153342 #>>24153345 #>>24153352 #>>24153556 #>>24153586 #>>24153822 #>>24154046 #
2. throwaway140820 ◴[] No.24153342[source]
I don't give a fuck about Epic. Let's get alternative app stores be present in the default app stores on my device. What are you even complaining about? I am on your side, are you on your side?
replies(1): >>24154627 #
3. jhardy54 ◴[] No.24153345[source]
They were expecting to get kicked out of the app store so that they could file a lawsuit and challenge the app store monopoly. How is that unclear?
replies(2): >>24153359 #>>24153408 #
4. ◴[] No.24153352[source]
5. throwaway6000 ◴[] No.24153359[source]
app store "monopoly"? No one's forcing you to use the Apple ecosystem. it's called Android.
replies(2): >>24153828 #>>24154402 #
6. whateveracct ◴[] No.24153408[source]
Gonna sue Nintendo if they don't let your game in the eshop?
replies(3): >>24153864 #>>24153997 #>>24154170 #
7. raxxorrax ◴[] No.24153556[source]
The comment is expecting you to have an opinion or some kind of comment on the practices that determines accessibility to software.

I will start: Are software stores and locked down environments really a good idea, when conflicts like this determine what kind of software you can install on your devices? Without a comment on who is in the "right" here, I will just use a clear 'no'.

8. copp ◴[] No.24153586[source]
Epic feels the rules set by Apple is not fair. At the first point is where the issue is.
9. lostlogin ◴[] No.24153822[source]
An exemption like the other big players got. The carefully crafted rules are re-written for the powerful.
10. ben-schaaf ◴[] No.24153828{3}[source]
Where you're pretty much stuck google play store, which has also banned the app...

There is side-loading, but there's a lot of friction there that I wouldn't expect normal users to withstand.

11. camhart ◴[] No.24153864{3}[source]
I understand this question, but I believe an eshop is different from a major platform used by hundreds of millions of people on a daily basis to run their lives.
replies(2): >>24153988 #>>24154191 #
12. spanhandler ◴[] No.24153988{4}[source]
It is possible that some of those people would list "only one app store & gateway for digital payments" as a feature for which they bought devices based on that platform. I'd list lots of the things devs complain about on iOS as reasons I favor it as an end user, in fact. (for the record, I've also done iOS and Android dev)

They're not perfect at all and I wish very much that they had competition, but for me to consider it real competition with the product they're providing it'd have to be similarly locked-down. The locking-down is part of the value. There are already far-less-locked-down phones and tablets available for people who want that.

replies(1): >>24154603 #
13. the_hoser ◴[] No.24153997{3}[source]
Much harder, but it wouldn't surprise me if the do later, depending on how this goes.
14. dj_mc_merlin ◴[] No.24154046[source]
1. Pharaoh says everybody who speaks against the royal family has their tongue cut out.

2. Seth says there should be less taxes as the pharaoh is too rich.

3. He gets his tongue cut out. What did he expect?

Unfair rules should not always be followed.

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15. Polylactic_acid ◴[] No.24154170{3}[source]
Nintendo should be forced to allow homebrew games/sideloading. These locked down bits of hardware are a disservice to society.
16. Silhouette ◴[] No.24154177[source]
Unfair rules should not always be followed.

This is probably the most important question: what is fair in a world where there are technological platform providers that are essentially creating two-sided markets of vast size and value? If the platform provider is in a dominant position, their actions or inaction could significantly harm participants in the market. Should they then be permitted to impose their own terms and charges on one or both sides of that market arbitrarily, or should there be some form of regulatory intervention in the interests of the participants in the market (from either side)? And to what extent should competition in whatever form be a factor in this?

There are many examples of harm where a single platform has a kind of quasi-monopoly and/or quasi-monopsony status. Aside from the current topic, consider Google's dominance of web search, and the corresponding effects it can have on web developers, advertisers and searchers. Other online marketplace services might qualify as well if they have come to dominate their niche. Then we have the manufacturers of many other types of device, such as cars or smart home control systems, which are also relatively high value purchases and "sticky", but where clearly there will be an ecosystem building up around them. It may not be in the interests of either the purchaser or those who would provide related products or services to be locked into whatever arrangements the manufacturer wants to impose.

We already have precedent for overriding the wishes of manufacturers in some instances in order to protect more vulnerable parties to the arrangements. For example, various regulatory authorities have acted to prevent car manufacturers from restricting their vehicles in such a way that only approved dealers can repair or service them, and of course there is the wider "right to repair" movement that is based on a similar principle.

But as ever, the law has not necessarily kept pace with the rapid evolution of technologies, and even if certain actions may be legal today as a result, that doesn't necessarily mean they should remain so.

17. Mikhail_Edoshin ◴[] No.24154191{4}[source]
Isn't Fortnite just some game?
replies(1): >>24156275 #
18. throwaway_2047 ◴[] No.24154351[source]
Well, Pharaoh is Pharaoh because they born to be Apple is Apple because Apple earned it.

Not disagreeing your point though

replies(1): >>24154503 #
19. Polylactic_acid ◴[] No.24154402{3}[source]
Its a monopoly for developers. As a company you can not not use the app store because half of your customers are there and very few companies can afford to give up half of their customers.
replies(1): >>24154504 #
20. lajawfe ◴[] No.24154503{3}[source]
Well, Apple were at the right place at the right time. There is quite a bit of input from their side, but don't underplay the huge role of luck. And there is also network effect, once they had healthy numbers, people flock to them, so it is also due to network effects they are huge.
21. pjmlp ◴[] No.24154504{4}[source]
Developers can chose to target other platforms.

There are countries with 0% iOS market share, half of zero is still zero.

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22. toyg ◴[] No.24154603{5}[source]
Lock it down by default, but allow users to unlock it. Make it a bit hard, like the carrier-lock. You have your walled garden and I have my device.
replies(1): >>24154673 #
23. dang ◴[] No.24154627[source]
Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. It's not what this site is for. Plenty of commenters are expressing views similar to yours without breaking the site guidelines. If you'd please read them and stick to the rules, we'd be grateful.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

24. spanhandler ◴[] No.24154673{6}[source]
I’m totally cool with that provided it’s not easy enough that another App Store is able to become a de facto necessity via that install method. The current official side-loading methods are almost good enough to suit the case of power users running a few custom apps from outside the store. If there’s a way to take off the time limits and not open up the possibility of the above scenario, that’d be wonderful. I have a couple non-App Store apps I’d put on mine, in fact.
25. imtringued ◴[] No.24155072{5}[source]
I personally don't like Apple and will never buy an Apple product, but I fully agree. People who buy Apple products are perfectly fine with the way Apple restricts their platform. If you don't like this as a developer, then just leave and stop developing for iOS.

A single big company doing this just to cut down on some fees just reeks of greed.

replies(1): >>24155228 #
26. imtringued ◴[] No.24155091[source]
You can choose a different royal family. If you don't like your current royal family then don't let your tongue be cut out voluntarily and then complain about it while still wanting to support the royal family that cut your tongue out.
27. pjmlp ◴[] No.24155228{6}[source]
It is not a single company, Google also kicked Fortnite, and it has been a thing in game consoles, car infotaiment systems, pre loaded apps on TV settop boxes and blue-ray players,....

The world is unfair, no one is expected to do charity for developers.

We are not a special snowflake job that isn't expected to give others the necessary payments to keep the whole chain working.

28. camhart ◴[] No.24156275{5}[source]
Fortnite is a game, but the lawsuit only uses Fornite as a concrete example of what Apple is doing. Epic Games if fighting for everyone--all app developers and ios users.
29. Polylactic_acid ◴[] No.24182226{5}[source]
For most business that is not a choice. If you are making a utility or game then maybe, but can a company like uber decide that they will only be available to android users?