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1704 points ardit33 | 6 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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mapgrep ◴[] No.24149792[source]
You could argue about Apple's rights, or citizens' free speech rights, or consumer rights, under existing law. It would be an interesting discussion because I think it's a lot more complicated an issue that most people appreciate.

But really why not talk about how we think things should work on platforms like iOS? What should the law be? What protects essential human rights, encourages creativity, and allows business to function to some extent?

Personally, I would argue that consumers should have a legal right to install whatever software they wish on a product they have purchased, including onto the bundled operating system. I don't think it should be permissible for a company like Apple (or Microsoft or whoever) to sell me a gadget and then use various sorts of locks to try to keep me from putting whatever apps or app stores or services I like on it.

Does anyone have any argument for why this right would be a bad thing? People would get bad software on their phones, but last I checked, this is happening already, including on iOS. Apple would lose some margin, but last I checked, their investment in creating and maintaining iOS has been handsomely rewarded and would surely continue to be.

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wheelie_boy ◴[] No.24150291[source]
A big part of the value of iPhones and iPads is that you don't have to worry about installing an app that screws up your system and requires a wipe & reinstall. You don't have to worry about viruses. You don't have to worry about spending a lot of time being a system administrator, and just use it. You don't even have to worry about many types of malware, because the system protects you from poorly-behaved applications, through a combination of technical means and human review.

If it was possible to side-load apps, then those advantages go out the window. To see what I'm talking about, look at apps that are skirting the apple app store.

Onavo is a good example. They:

- paid teens

- to install the Facebook Enterprise Certificate

- to side-load the Onavo VPN

- to spy on their internet traffic

- to find out about new apps or websites that might be a threat to facebook (among other things)

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43920 ◴[] No.24150876[source]
I would argue that the technical limitations of iOS are what accomplishes this, rather than app review. For a malicious actor, sneaking prohibited behavior past app review is incredibly easy - look at what Fortnite just did! The reason that apps on iOS can't damage your device is that apps are sandboxed, and that the OS requires user permission to access data and places limits on how many resources an app can use. There's no reason that the same sandboxing system couldn't be applied to apps from outside the store.

(VPNs and provisioning profiles are sort of an exception to this, because they can escape the sandbox, but a) the number of scary warnings presented by the system should be enough to limit their impact, and b) they will also continue to exist separately from the app store issue).

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wheelie_boy ◴[] No.24150995[source]
Sandboxing is important, but is only one part of the protections.

There's also:

- App store guidelines on what is and is not permissible in different cases

- Restrictions against using private APIs

- Restrictions against jailbreaking the device

There are a variety of VPN apps available on iOS. Why was Onavo blocked? Because it violated the guidelines on the use of the information, which is the kind of thing that it difficult to automate.

Restrictions against using private APIs are semi-automated, and would be difficult to completely automate.

The fact that you can't get an iOS app that jailbreaks the device in order to do whatever it wants is in part due to human review - if one existed in the store, it would get pulled, and the developer cert would get revoked. Jailbreaks exist, and human review in the app store is one way they are mitigated.

I for one remember the bad old days when playing a CD could (and did!) install a rootkit.

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1. greggman3 ◴[] No.24152609[source]
Here's already another platform that does just fine with sandboxing. It's been running for 27+ years. It's called a the web browser. Restrictions against using private APIs.... you can't call any private APIs, it's impossible. Find an exploit? It's generally fixed in a few days.

Software isn't even installed, new versions are downloaded daily or more so the concept of sandboxing as been throughly tested and proven effective for those 27 years.

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2. uberduper ◴[] No.24153148[source]
You can't be serious.
3. wruza ◴[] No.24153213[source]
And then you notice that your browser demands almost the same amount of resources as a 60+fps 3d game for presenting you a just a bunch of static images and some text. It is apples to oranges comparison, because a performance requires an unsandboxed, non-emulated native env, which is hard to protect from exploits. Replace a browser with any OS in existence and see how secure it is to execute an arbitrary binary on it.
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4. Karunamon ◴[] No.24153387[source]
The difficulty with that argument is that Apple has gone out of their way to make webapps second class citizens. PWAs can't do everything installed apps can.

And that's before we get into resource usage.

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5. arsome ◴[] No.24153886[source]
But that's not the point - the point is, sandboxing largely solves these issues without the need for restrictions on side loading, restrictions to a single app store or similar abuses of consumers rights.

Apple should build a better sandbox, the idea that "private APIs" exist and the only thing stopping them from being used is a basic string search on the app store review is pretty horrifying.

6. saagarjha ◴[] No.24156110[source]
> performance requires an unsandboxed, non-emulated native env

Nope, sandboxing is largely orthogonal to performance.