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428 points coronadisaster | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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Nursie ◴[] No.23680973[source]
The page visibility API should be on the list.

It's none of your business if I'm looking at your page or not.

replies(1): >>23683302 #
cromwellian ◴[] No.23683302[source]
So if a page is running a computation in the background, for example, rendering some real time chart or something, you'd rather it continue to do work and waste battery life, then to throttle itself?

But then you'll say "well the browser should just throttle any tab i'm not looking at" (which it already does), but then you'll complain the first time an app you actually want live updating doesn't work properly.

replies(1): >>23684413 #
Nursie ◴[] No.23684413[source]
> So if a page is running a computation in the background, for example, rendering some real time chart or something, you'd rather it continue to do work and waste battery life, then to throttle itself?

Yep, that's the behaviour I expect. If I want you to stop I'll close you.

> But then you'll say "well the browser should just throttle any tab i'm not looking at"

Why would I say that? I explicitly don't want pages to act differently when I'm not looking at them. If they're updating when I'm looking at them then they should keep doing that when I flick away to something else.

It's a privacy issue and it's a functionality issue. It's literally none of the page's business whether I have it in view or not.

Next you'll be telling me that pages should be able to use the camera and face sensing tech in smartphones to detect if I'm looking in the right direction. For my convenience of course, nothing to do with advertising, tracking, analytics...

FYI I've managed to find an addon for firefox that blocks this API. No noticeable difference in battery life.

replies(1): >>23685460 #
1. cromwellian ◴[] No.23685460[source]
> Next you'll be telling me that pages should be able to use the camera

They already do have access to the camera through the getUserMedia APIs, and WebXR has Gaze Tracking. Even your iPhone allows camera access through the Web.

replies(1): >>23688029 #
2. Nursie ◴[] No.23688029[source]
I am at least asked permission for camera use, as far as I know. Not so for the visibility API.

If gaze tracking or camera access is to be allowed without permission, I would consider that a gross violation of privacy.

replies(1): >>23689033 #
3. cromwellian ◴[] No.23689033[source]
Well many of the APIs Apple rejected asked for permission.

If asking permission is what it takes for Safari to implement something than they could suggest a modification with permissions.

Flat out rejecting everything comes across as Microsoft style aggression back when MS was actively seeking to kill open platforms in favor proprietary APIs.

Apple could even suggest tying permissions into the App Store and require web domains to be signed and approved by app stores for the permissions to work, but not presenting alternative proposals suggests they are not interested in making the Web better.

The whole App clips thing is kind of ludicrous because it’s a text book example (eg paying a parking meter) that the Web model excels at. The fact that they didn’t choose the web for that is telling. WeChat for example has deployed such mini apps for years in China to support interactions with vending machines, restaurants, etc by simply scanning a QR code. It works brilliantly and didn’t need an App Store.

replies(1): >>23690616 #
4. Nursie ◴[] No.23690616{3}[source]
But the argument there is also quite reasonable - the UX of popping up boxes for this stuff is terrible, it annoys people and they just start clicking "Yes" all the time or "no" all the time.

And this is because, while there clearly are good and valid web apps that use this functionality, the web is also a cesspit of abusers who will use any means they can to track, trace and infiltrate.

I don't know what the solution is, suffice to say I haven't really seen a good one yet, and until such time as one comes along I am happy using a browser that either lets me turn this stuff off in a blanket fashion or flat out doesn't include it.

Mildly lower friction on payment apps is not enough of a trade-off