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677 points saeedjabbar | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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ibudiallo ◴[] No.23544856[source]
I usually choose to believe in "the honest mistake". It happens, two people walk in, one of them is the CEO, you assume it is the one on the right. And then when you realize it is a mistake, you apologize. We are only human.

But when it happens over and over and over, you can't help but feel frustrated. You realize that people natural instinct is to think you are the subordinate. One second your are on stage at Techcrunch (I was in 2017), where you have clearly introduced yourself. You get off-stage, they greet your colleague and ask him the questions as if he was on stage.

I was often in the interview room waiting for my interviewer, only to have him show up, and tell me I must be in the wrong room. A simple "Hey are you XYZ?" could have avoided this frustration.

I've written an article about my experience working as a black developer, I'll post it here in the near future. You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people.

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dgb23 ◴[] No.23546168[source]
> You wouldn't believe how lonely it is. In my team of 150 people, we were two black people.

This is a huge part of the problem isn't it?

I believe these painful interactions would be much less common if tech culture were more diverse in the first place.

Women share a similar fate. Whenever I hear some of these stories I cringe. Some of them are surprising/shocking even.

But this seems important. Hearing those stories including the ones you mentioned. Not necessarily to point fingers (although sometimes we should) but rather to fight this common, widespread ignorance.

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read_if_gay_ ◴[] No.23548673[source]
> This is a huge part of the problem isn't it?

I think this is the problem.

Say a black guy with gold teeth, tons of tattoos and colorful dreadlocks and a middle aged white guy walk in. One of them is a rapper. Who is it?

Based on experience, most people will certainly assume the black guy is. What if it turns out it’s the white guy?

Are they unconsciously racist against white people or are they just following experience-based heuristics? Would they have decided differently if rappers were commonly middle aged white guys?

I say for sure. If black people in tech become more common this particular problem will solve itself.

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evrydayhustling ◴[] No.23550371[source]
> Are they unconsciously racist or are they just following experience-based heuristics?

Both! Today's discussion about racism isn't (mainly) about critiquing the motivations in peoples' deepest heart. It's about acknowledging that the outcomes of this kind of assumption can be racist, regardless of whether any harm was intended.

The person who is assumed to be subordinate, or less educated, or more prone to criminality will be given fewer opportunities. Society will systematically fail to recognize and utilize their talents, and can ultimately do them great harm through neglect - even if the individuals involved were "just following experience-based heuristics".

Acknowledging your potential to participate in racism doesn't mean admitting you have a cartoonish hatred. It means recognizing that it requires a proactive effort to keep assumptions from becoming self perpetuating in harmful ways.

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buran77 ◴[] No.23551304[source]
In general people who never suffered from this kind of profiling have a hard time understanding what's the problem. "I just called him a rapper". No, you just profiled someone who is sick and tired of being profiled. So the examples meant to convey the message better have to be a bit exaggerated.

Imagine calling every white, bald guy "a neo-nazi". A reasonable person who just didn't get the problem suddenly finds the heuristics explanation as no longer appropriate. An unreasonable person probably doesn't want to understand anyway so any effort is wasted on them.

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read_if_gay_ ◴[] No.23553094[source]
> In general people who never suffered from this kind of profiling have a hard time understanding what's the problem

I'm assuming you're directing this towards me since you mentioned my example. I am myself a minority. Do you realize that you just racially profiled me based on my opinion?

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buran77 ◴[] No.23562064[source]
> you just racially profiled me based on my opinion

This argument makes no sense. I based my words on your statement not your person and it wasn't even addressed to you. I picked up your argument and from personal experience explained why those people that you described see it like that. Making a very wobbly assumption based on criteria that puts one in a protected group is profiling and it gets old when you keep hearing it again and again. Moreover the same reasoning can lead to far more offensive conclusions then calling someone a rapper.

I never mentioned your race and it would make no difference to the argument: a black person in Africa will have just as little experience being profiled as a white person in the US. My "prejudice" wasn't towards you but towards the people who think making such assumptions is normal. Pulling this absurd "you racially profiled me based on my opinion" card now suggests to me that minority or not perhaps you also do not understand the real issue.

I would have thought that people who suffered this kind of profiling understand why it's a problem and actively steer away from doing it or even condoning it without the need for further explanation. And I get it that some are doing it without realizing it's a problem. I'm not assuming bad faith, just lack of understanding.

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1. read_if_gay_ ◴[] No.23565408{3}[source]
You were imlplying people who "don't understand the problem" (as in, they share my opinion) are generally lacking certain experiences, which is fundamentally nothing different than profiling them based on superficial attributes, which is exactly what's being criticised.

I'm not taking issue with you doing that, I was just aiming to illustrate the fact that everyone does this constantly. It's easier than thinking - it saves energy, we evolved to do it. It'll be hard to get rid of this and therefore maybe shouldn't be in the focus as much as it is.