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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

(www.bloomberg.com)
677 points saeedjabbar | 1 comments | 16 Jun 20 15:19 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[16 Jun 20 21:01 UTC] No.23544053[source]▶
I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO.

I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic racism - here's a great starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7mzj0cVL0Q. She also wrote the book "White Fragility".

Thinking about that, I'm just wondering how different it would be if one of those people who mistook the employee for the CEO instead turned to the CEO and said "I'm sorry, please excuse me for the instance of racism I just perpetrated against you, I promise it won't happen again." I realize how outlandish that may sound writing that out, but I'd propose that the fact that it does sound outlandish is the main problem. Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not. We can't address them if we're so embarrassed by their existence as to pretend they don't exist.

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tomp ◴[16 Jun 20 21:12 UTC] No.23544188[source]▶
That's stereotyping, not racism. People make inferences. Like, if there's two folks, one dressed in a suit, the other in baggy clothes with thick glasses, most people (including VCs) would default to the former as the MBA CEO, and the latter as geek CTO Even though it might be the exact opposite! If you make a wrong inference, just accept the correction and move on, no hurt feelings. Similar for old vs. young.
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ceejayoz ◴[16 Jun 20 21:25 UTC] No.23544385[source]▶
> That's stereotyping, not racism.

It can be both.

"Women drive badly" is a sexist stereotype, but not racism.

"Black people drive badly" would be both a stereotype and racism.

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tomp ◴[16 Jun 20 21:31 UTC] No.23544467[source]▶
Well, it's still sexist. Same thing. Also, wrong.

A better example would be, "women aren't passionate about driving". That's a stereotype, likely a correct one (i.e. substantiated by statistics... I mean, I'm not certain, but that would be my prior, but I'm very open to changing it), and most importantly: not harmful. It's just a stereotype.

I'm not denying that things could be harmful (racism, sexist, ...). But not all stereotypes are. Like guessing that "Alex" is probably a guy.

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panopticon ◴[16 Jun 20 21:42 UTC] No.23544589[source]▶
> That's a stereotype, likely a correct one [snip], and most importantly: not harmful. It's just a stereotype.

Citation on those not being harmful? Stereotypes like that seem to be a driving factor in why STEM fields are very male dominated.

"Girls don't like cars; go find some dolls to play with."

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manfredo ◴[17 Jun 20 00:07 UTC] No.23545973[source]▶
This is often claimed, but not something that holds up to scrutiny. Women's representation in technology peaked in the US during the 1980s. Are we really going to argue that gender stereotypes are stronger in 2020 than 30-40 years ago? Similarly, countries with low gender equality actually have higher rates of women in STEM as compared to more egalitarian countries [1].

I don't disagree that some my find stereotypes alienating. But you're making a very big leap to claim that it's a "driving factor" as far as gender representation in STEM.

1. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more...

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1. notahacker ◴[17 Jun 20 10:56 UTC] No.23549988[source]▶
The cross sectional data is interesting and certainly puts a dent in simplistic explanations that only the patriarchy is preventing gender parity in STEM. But then again, variation in male/female average preferences by time and place works overall in favour of arguments that cultural factors like stereotyping influence career choices (and against biological predispositions being the one true explanation for female underrepresentation). It's not entirely impossible that women are simply more inclined to pick professions other than tech as barriers to other careers are removed (I'm sure the stereotypes that women don't belong in finance or law are stronger in the UAE and were stronger in the 1980s US). But once one acknowledges that alienation [and anticipation of discrimination, and role models] probably plays some role in career selection, the question becomes why it wouldn't be a driving factor in [self]selection for a field where US gender gaps were much smaller when it was a non-traditional niche attracting comparatively little attention than when it was a mainstream white collar career choice but one whose male nerd stereotypes are firmly ingrained in public consciousness.