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677 points saeedjabbar | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.251s | source
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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[] No.23544053[source]
I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO.

I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic racism - here's a great starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7mzj0cVL0Q. She also wrote the book "White Fragility".

Thinking about that, I'm just wondering how different it would be if one of those people who mistook the employee for the CEO instead turned to the CEO and said "I'm sorry, please excuse me for the instance of racism I just perpetrated against you, I promise it won't happen again." I realize how outlandish that may sound writing that out, but I'd propose that the fact that it does sound outlandish is the main problem. Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not. We can't address them if we're so embarrassed by their existence as to pretend they don't exist.

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throwaway_day ◴[] No.23547756[source]
"Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not."

This is bolder than I think you think it is. It's maybe evasive, too -- which ideas, exactly?

"I'm sorry, please excuse me for the instance of racism I just perpetrated against you, I promise it won't happen again."

There's no doubt the person in question should apologize, but what "racism" has been "perpetrated"? (A) there are and have been few black CEOs in America. (B) the guy/girl in your example does not expect a black CEO as a result. (C) Guy/girl commits extremely awkward faux pas.

Where is the racism? Where is the "inculcated idea" about race, besides an expectation based on ... there being literally very few black CEOs? I'll even grant you that (A) might be the case in part because of historical racist behavior in the US. Surely it is! It still doesn't make the guy necessarily racist. He doesn't tell us that he believes that human characteristics are determined by skin color, for example, nor does he tell the room e.g. that by golly he didn't know blacks could handle being a CEO, or that they were even allowed to do so, or some such actually racist BS.

I think the definitions of a lot of things have expanded since the childhoods of people of a certain age, and they're grappling with those changes. I certainly am. Racism doesn't seem to mean what I've long understood it to mean. Racism exists, and it ought to be fought, but I'm not sure how productive the current mood is going to be for that. I kinda hope I'm wrong, but I'd also be worried to be wrong, if people like Do Angelio are a sign of what's to come.

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1. demarq ◴[] No.23548860[source]
Racism is treating people differently based on the colour of their skin in a way that will impact them negatively.

> awkward faux pas

Just stop downplaying it. You are judging the "good intentions" here and ignoring the real and serious repercussions for someone who will have to go through this every day. A good intention would be to catch yourself and others perpetrating a "faux pas" and let them know that it is a serious mistake to dismiss someone because of their race.

what is so hard about treating people decently.