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For black CEOs in Silicon Valley, humiliation is a part of doing business

(www.bloomberg.com)
677 points saeedjabbar | 14 comments | 16 Jun 20 15:19 UTC | HN request time: 0.864s | source | bottom
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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[16 Jun 20 21:01 UTC] No.23544053[source]▶
I thought this was a great article. One of the most interesting things to me was how the embarrassment/defensiveness of the white people involved was one of the biggest blocks to the black CEOs in their advancement, e.g. the VCs who "just wanted to get the hell out of there" after mistaking a white subordinate for the CEO.

I've recently been reading/watching some videos and writings by Robin Diangelo on systemic racism - here's a great starting point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7mzj0cVL0Q. She also wrote the book "White Fragility".

Thinking about that, I'm just wondering how different it would be if one of those people who mistook the employee for the CEO instead turned to the CEO and said "I'm sorry, please excuse me for the instance of racism I just perpetrated against you, I promise it won't happen again." I realize how outlandish that may sound writing that out, but I'd propose that the fact that it does sound outlandish is the main problem. Everyone in the US was raised in an environment that inculcated certain racial ideas, subconsciously or not. We can't address them if we're so embarrassed by their existence as to pretend they don't exist.

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GaryNumanVevo ◴[16 Jun 20 21:22 UTC] No.23544345[source]▶
I'm skeptical about Robin Diangelo, I read her book a few months ago, and it only seems to be an advertisement for her services as an anti-racist instructor. Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything. There are much better books for foundational education about race.

Even within her book she claims that no amount of training will solve the issue, it seems that "White Fragility" is just another way for White people to tamp down the anxiety of race relations in the United States, rather than take any meaningful action towards changing it.

If your goal is to truly understand the Black american experience, it's best to start with actual Black authors. The House That Race Built by Wahneema Lubiano is a great set of essays about race and class structures.

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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[16 Jun 20 21:30 UTC] No.23544457[source]▶
> Her entire argument frames race relations within the context of the workplace which is problematic because her approach is coercive, not educational. It's more a guide on "how not to get fired for being racist" than anything.

I admit I only just started reading her book, so can't comment on that, but I would say that's not the takeaway I got from any of the online videos or interviews I've seen of her, most definitely not from the youtube one I linked.

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GaryNumanVevo ◴[16 Jun 20 21:53 UTC] No.23544725[source]▶
The video you linked espouses the same ideas. To be anti-racist isn't to simply understand the things one can and cannot say. To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power.

It's akin to just memorizing a list of microagressions like curse words and never saying them for fear of being fired. Anti-racism provides the tools to contextualize and understand why certain phrases are racist or biased.

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1. lesstenseflow ◴[16 Jun 20 22:44 UTC] No.23545215[source]▶
> To be anti-racist is to fundamentally understand the lived experiences of the Black community and how it relates to other structures of power.

I thought “fundamentally understanding the lived experiences of the black community” was impossible for non-black people. What white person has achieved this goal? If none, is it impossible for a white person to be “anti-racist?”

I acknowledge racism is a real issue but think it’s reasonable to disagree what the best solution is. This stuff (white fragility etc) just smells way too much like “original sin” and “we are all sinners but must strive towards holiness, however unachievable” to me.

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2. callmeal ◴[16 Jun 20 23:31 UTC] No.23545643[source]▶
>What white person has achieved this goal?

I know at least one person who has.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/oct/27/black-like-me-...

I know it's not possible for everyone to do what John Howard Griffin did, but reading that book and living that experience vicariously can be a start.

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3. GaryNumanVevo ◴[16 Jun 20 23:32 UTC] No.23545660[source]▶
Fundamental being the key operative here. Understanding the Black lived experience is an approximation of the actual experience. Of course there's no singular Black experience, but there are fundamentals underlying all, which can be understood and approximated by people with non-Black lived experiences.
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4. GaryNumanVevo ◴[16 Jun 20 23:38 UTC] No.23545709[source]▶
I don't think that's the best example. How does one separate: "They're treating me poorly because I'm a black person" and "They're treating me poorly because I'm a white guy trying to be a black person"
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5. ◴[16 Jun 20 23:51 UTC] No.23545805[source]▶
6. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[16 Jun 20 23:53 UTC] No.23545830[source]▶
> I acknowledge racism is a real issue but think it’s reasonable to disagree what the best solution is. This stuff (white fragility etc) just smells way too much like “original sin” and “we are all sinners but must strive towards holiness, however unachievable” to me.

I’ve always been a “treat others as you would like to be treated” person. But a lot of this anti-racist concept is appearing on all my pod casts. And now I have to see race?

I’m in Australia and I think these are largely US concepts. Frankly I wish we’d stop importing US culture. Australia isn’t perfect but we largely agree on things like universal health care and getting rid of guns. So I think we can combat racism without having to look at the US for guidance.

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7. klipt ◴[16 Jun 20 23:57 UTC] No.23545879{3}[source]▶
Rachel Dolezal?
8. throwaway_jobs ◴[17 Jun 20 00:22 UTC] No.23546111[source]▶
> I’m in Australia and I think these are largely US concepts.

Based on that statement alone I think I can accurately conclude you are not an indigenous Australian (aboriginal).

Seems they share quiet a lot in common with native Americans from stealing of their lands/displacement, mass killings, enslavement By colonists, to ongoing racism that continues to carry on today.

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9. carapace ◴[17 Jun 20 00:56 UTC] No.23546407{3}[source]▶
I read this book. He fooled people both black and white.

FWIW, I think reading it would help some people understand.

10. callmeal ◴[17 Jun 20 01:50 UTC] No.23546809{3}[source]▶
You just made his point. "They're treating me poorly because I'm a black person" and "They're treating me poorly because I'm a white guy trying to be a black person" translate to "They're treating me poorly because of the color of my skin".
11. 2muchcoffeeman ◴[17 Jun 20 01:51 UTC] No.23546815{3}[source]▶
I’m not indigenous. I said we have to combat racism. I never said there are not similarities with what indigenous people went through.

But it seems racism in the US has a lot of deeper cultural implications so they came up with anti-racism. Australia needs to figure out what equality means to us and make our own cultural changes. Not copy the US.

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12. watwut ◴[17 Jun 20 07:19 UTC] No.23548720{3}[source]▶
American concepts around these things are not based on native Americans history, but on African American history. It is true that Americans tend to project own culture and history into other groups and then get offended when those tell them "wait our history and prejudices are different".

Even more, Americans assume that sexism elsewhere must be the same as sexism in America. They just seems to be completely confused about other countries having somewhat different gender stereotypes and different expectations on genders. The end result is that local sexism is combined with American version of sexism - end result is not more equality, it is less of it.

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13. jacobush ◴[17 Jun 20 08:08 UTC] No.23549019{4}[source]▶
Excuse me if I except the Australian solution to be "ignore it" for a few more decades. How can the cultural implications be worse than they are in Australia?

I'm surprised there are any natives left there at all, the way they have been treated.

14. the_omegist ◴[18 Jun 20 15:51 UTC] No.23564238{4}[source]▶
Yeah. It's funny how the pro-diversity, pro-egalitarianism, etc don't see their ideological blind spot when they use the same tools (propaganda and medias) to propagate their views of society, and what is Good and Wrong, in the same imperialist way as their conservative ennemis ...