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Traster ◴[] No.23322571[source]
I think this is going to be a discussion thread that is almost inevitably going to be a shitshow, but anyway:

There are people who advocate the idea that private companies should be compelled to distribute hate speech, dangerously factually incorrect information and harassment under the concept that free speech is should be applied universally rather than just to government. I don't agree, I think it's a vast over-reach and almost unachievable to have both perfect free speech on these platforms and actually run them as a viable business.

But let's lay that aside, those people who make the argument claim to be adhering to an even stronger dedication to free speech. Surely, it's clear here that having the actual head of the US government threatening to shut down private companies for how they choose to manage their platforms is a far more disturbing and direct threat against free speech even in the narrowest sense.

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0x5002 ◴[] No.23322889[source]
I have struggled with both points of the argument for a while now. In general, I'm inclined to agree with your assessment that this would be a glaring overreach on the side of the feds. It's also apparent that social networks have a tendency to cater massively to one side of the increasingly divided political spectrum, as proven with experiments like Gab. I've always liked the idea of having a Twitter clone that bases their philosophy on the 1st amendment, but in reality, all it did was to attract the polar opposite of the /r/politics subreddit (to put it lightly), rather than to facilitate free and open discourse.

On the other hand, Twitter, Facebook, YouTube et al are undoubtedly massively influential on the public opinion and their corporate position on political topics - Yoel Roth's recent tweets serve as a decent example, showing clearly that this person cannot be an objective "fact checker" - essentially create a public forum where I am not able to exercise my first amendment rights (and, legally speaking, rightfully so). I cannot help but to find this very concerning.

YouTube (despite numerous issues with their interpretation of free speech), for instance, starting linking Wiki articles under videos that cover certain topics or are uploaded by certain channels. Videos by the BBC show a notice that the BBC is a British public broadcast service, simply informing the viewer about the fact that any bias they might encounter can be easily identified (feel free to switch "BBC" with "RT"). I've found that to be a decent middle ground between outright suppressing views by a corporation pretending to be the authority on certain topics and broadcasting everything without any context.

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koheripbal ◴[] No.23327471[source]
The obvious way around both of these arguments is to offer consumers more choices. If someone is censored from a particular platform, there needs to be another that they can use.

There are a tiiiiny number of companies that are controlling global communications, and that should make us all uncomfortable.

Being banned from one restaurant in town, should not mean you're banned from all restaurants in the world.

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1. neaden ◴[] No.23328325[source]
Right, but if you dress in a shirt with a Swastika you're going to get banned from every restaurant in town pretty quickly, and I don't think that is a bad thing.
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2. colejohnson66 ◴[] No.23328688[source]
If each one came to that decision separately, then sure, ban them. The problem arises when a company controls, say, 90% of the restaurants. And then ban you for no reason.
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3. nsajko ◴[] No.23329238[source]
I know that you really meant Nazi insignia when saying "Swastika", but it still may interest you to see this page (with many pictures): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika

Swastikas have a rich cultural history from long before NSDAP.

EDIT: to all the down-voters, I am not sure why the down-votes, but I suspect doing a Web search for "japan swastika" or similar may enlighten you.

EDIT2: FTR, I did not think of my post as some supposed big revelation, rather I mostly wanted to share my appreciation for the various Swastika forms (as old graphical art); and also thought banning Swastikas in general might be insensitive to Asians.

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4. neaden ◴[] No.23329274[source]
So when Twitter starts to ban people for no reason, let's object then. The idea that we all have to start when they are banning Nazi's because of some slippery slope is ludicrous.
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5. mullingitover ◴[] No.23329293[source]
It's not a problem if people frequent the popular restaurants by choice. Maybe regular people aren't fans of restaurants whose main differentiating feature is their "swastika shirts welcome" sign.
6. ◴[] No.23329306{3}[source]
7. duskwuff ◴[] No.23330126[source]
> EDIT: to all the down-voters, I am not sure why the down-votes

Probably because the point you're trying to make here is 1) nitpicking a detail of a hypothetical example which wasn't particularly relevant to the discussion, and 2) the "but it's not always a symbol of hate" argument is a rather common neo-Nazi talking point.

8. Talanes ◴[] No.23330295[source]
You're not being down-voted because people don't believe you. You're being down-voted because you de-railed a discussion to insert a commonly-known fact as if it were some big revelation. We all know the swastika has a history outside Nazism, just like we know that you are unlikely to encounter an out-of-context swastika in the western world.
9. croon ◴[] No.23330466[source]
I downvoted you primarily because it is irrelevant to the point GP was making. On top of that I didn¨t find it interesting as I think it's fairly wide known that they co-opted the icon.