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215 points LaSombra | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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austincheney ◴[] No.23080701[source]
Uggghhhh, the entitlement of well paid and under qualified developers is loathsome. To everybody else who doesn’t share that entitlement it looks like gross ethnocentricity.

Look, if you want all your crying and personal opinions to actually mean something start someplace rational. Start by asking (demanding) for a uniform of code of ethics. Every other professional industry has this, but not software.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism

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techslave ◴[] No.23080801[source]
https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics

https://www.ieee.org/about/corporate/governance/p7-8.html

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austincheney ◴[] No.23080984[source]
Sigh, did you declare an oath to those when you were hired? No, these were never mentioned during your hiring process or ever provided to you by your employer? Then that is just some animal's shit on a wall as irrelevant as wealthy software engineers quitting their jobs in protest.

Honestly, what happens you violate those? What are the actual repercussions to you? Then they aren't a code of ethics that applies to you.

As a medical doctor if you violate the Hippocratic Oath you will certainly lose your license to practice medicine and probably go to jail. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath

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striking ◴[] No.23081278[source]
I think whatever valid points you might have are getting lost in your attempts at rhetoric.

You may want to reconsider the relevance of the article you linked yourself, given that it contains the phrase

> The Hippocratic Oath has been eclipsed as a document of professional ethics by more extensive, regularly updated ethical codes issued by national medical associations

and that, to my knowledge, it's not considered legally binding.

In fact, you could consider it as similar to the ACM Code of Ethics, as both are not legally binding and yet they both do a pretty good job of mentioning a list of commonly made mistakes that people make that could get them in trouble (legally or morally or ethically) as well as processes for avoiding such mistakes.

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austincheney ◴[] No.23081394[source]
> and that, to my knowledge, it's not considered legally binding.

Violating the oath is grounds for immediate revocation of license which eliminates lawful practice forever whether or not professional. The actions that produced that violation may not be a lawful violation, but they typically are.

What in software is of similar consequence?

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striking ◴[] No.23081648[source]
From your previously linked article:

> There is no direct punishment for breaking the Hippocratic Oath, although an arguable equivalent in modern times is medical malpractice

and from "The Hippocratic Oath as Literary Text: A Dialogue Between Law and Medicine"[1]

> Still today, the Oath continues to demand that physicians maintain ethics higher than those expected of society in general,[18] and it remains a code of professional identity that marks off "proper" medicine from various forms of alternative healing practices.'[19]

Later,

> This Part examines judicial opinions that allow doctors to perform [a lengthy list of acts and the cases in which they were allowed]. These opinions directly contradict specific portions of the Hippocratic Oath.

(that section later goes on to discuss that the oath is inextricably tied to the analysis of medical ethics, and so it retains its share of social/moral/ethical relevance even if it is not always legally relevant... which in my opinion is not incomparable to how we should approach the ACM Code of Ethics.)

I personally don't understand where you see a difference.

1: Lisa R. Hasday, The Hippocratic Oath as Literary Text: A Dialogue Between Law and Medicine, 2 Yale J. Health Pol'y L. & Ethics (2002). Available at: https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/yjhple/vol2/iss2/4

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1. austincheney ◴[] No.23084149[source]
> I personally don't understand where you see a difference.

It doesn't matter what difference I see or what my opinions are. It only matters in how you practice your profession. In practical terms this difference is distinguished with one word: licensing.

If you wish to be taken seriously have credentials that certify credibility. This is a solved problem... just not in software. As an unlicensed unaccredited software developer you shouldn't take my opinions too seriously as I won't take yours.