Asian American Discrimination in Harvard Admissions [pdf]

(public.econ.duke.edu)

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vikramkr ◴[25 Apr 20 02:30 UTC] No.22975041[source]▶

Here's what annoys me. This analysis is showing that race-based factors are being factored into "personal ratings" and in how rec letters are being interpreted etc. Just make there be an overall admission penalty for being Asian and release the exact level of that barrier like they do for med school admissions. You can see for med schools exactly what the average GPA and MCATs needed are for white, black, Asian, Latino, etc. Stop trying to hide it in obviously discriminatory ways like lowering people's personal ratings. Just make an affirmative action penalty without perpetuating stereotypes about Asian American applicants being math-loving robots with no other well-rounded characteristics.

What annoys me even more frankly is that the burden for fixing centuries of institutional racism and discrimination apparently needs to be born by hardworking immigrants and children of immigrants, not the people that most directly benefitted from generations of injust social structures. Legacies are OK, and the percentage of students at ivy league schools from the top 1% can be sky-high, so rich wealthy white students with connections and successful parents don't have to sacrifice anything. Legacy admissions, a structure explicitly created by many schools to keep out Jewish students[0], is OK because "school spirit" and increased donations. People that benefit from generations of inequity totally deserve their spots at these schools. However, the hardworking student who's a child of immigrant parents, without connections or networks, parents working in everything from laundromats to tech jobs building generational wealth from the ground up? Students who studied hard to get good grades and do everything the admissions officers could want? No, they have to sacrifice their admissions to fix the legacy of slavery. They have to pay the price and are discriminated against compared to white folk. What a brilliant way to breed lateral violence between minorities and create a system that continues to perpetuate classism and racism while pretending that keeping out a deserving Asian student in favor of a rich white student is helping a disadvantaged black student.

[0]https://www.businessinsider.com/legacy-admissions-originally...

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pcurve ◴[25 Apr 20 02:39 UTC] No.22975089[source]▶

>>22975041 #

This was one of the most depressing charts https://emilkirkegaard.dk/en/wp-content/uploads/medschool.pn...

if you're asian, your chance of being accepted to medical school is 1/8th of black in lower score zone. 1/8th.

You can have the highest GPA and MCAT. Your chance of getting in is still lower than black with lowest GPA and MCAT.

I don't know if the stats are adjusted for schools applied, but still quite an eye opening chart. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. It's bad.

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1. vikramkr ◴[25 Apr 20 02:48 UTC] No.22975134[source]▶

>>22975089 #

The thing with med school discrimination is, I almost don't mind. There's no blatant hypocrisy with legacy admissions. There is a genuine medical reason to have more black doctors having to do with trust of medical professionals. There are barriers faced by black applicants that are not faced to the same extent by asian applicants. And, the med schools are very clear about what those thresholds are and what that difference in rate is. I can understand that there's a combination of people that look like XYZ wanting doctors that look like them and that there's discrimination faced by XYZ that needs to be factored in (XYZ being black, latino, native american, etc) making that individual with a lower score a better future doctor. And, results in the long run show that people admitted on affirmative action don't necessarily fare worse. The med school process never seemed as unfair as the undergrad process, even though the med school process is just as biased. And, we're not asked to sacrifice a spot for some rich white kid who is only getting in because of connections. Not in med school, where qualifications actually do matter and there's no such thing as a gentleman's C for the legacies.

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2. pcurve ◴[25 Apr 20 03:20 UTC] No.22975268[source]▶

>>22975134 (TP) #

if you wouldn't mind providing sources regarding long term performance, I'd actually love to read it so that I can have more balanced view.

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3. vikramkr ◴[25 Apr 20 03:36 UTC] No.22975338[source]▶

>>22975268 #

On the importance of having black doctors: https://www.nber.org/papers/w24787.pdf

The long term equal performance thing is less clearly demonstrated, justice scalia for example had a very strong belief otherwise. Here's a perspective on it from the no difference side (i'm sure you'll have already read the other versions of the argument): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/12/1...

I'm more convinced by the need for black doctors than the performance argument personally. If having a black doctor for a black community leads to better health outcomes because people trust doctors that look like them (with good reason, unfortunately, things like the Tuskegee syphilis experiment have not been forgotten), then medical outcomes are medical outcomes. If their race, in that case, makes them a better doctor for that community and that community needs more doctors to address large health disparities, then that in and of itself is a type of performance metric that's important. I don't like that that's the case. I'm obviously biased since i'm asian and I'd very much like higher admit rates. And I'm idealistic in thinking race shouldn't matter in administering medicine. But that's not the world we live in yet. And it's not just from the patient perspective, a different sort of cultural understanding and empathy from the doctor also helps them practice, which their race or gender can provide.

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4. throwlaplace ◴[25 Apr 20 04:46 UTC] No.22975657{3}[source]▶

>>22975338 #

>And it's not just from the patient perspective, a different sort of cultural understanding and empathy from the doctor also helps them practice, which their race or gender can provide.

this is the biggest factor i think personally (though i'm not a doctor) - i imagine it's very hard to treat people effectively if you're not intimately familiar with their circumstances.

5. WesternStar ◴[25 Apr 20 08:22 UTC] No.22976592[source]▶

>>22975134 (TP) #

I just don't get the downvotes. Black Patients go to doctors and say doctor I think I need help doctor goes "You're just whining" then the patient dies. https://newsone.com/3903170/black-women-call-out-hospital-mi... that's just the story from this year. They've had at least 2 in the last 3 years.

6. fulldecent2 ◴[25 Apr 20 14:09 UTC] No.22978196[source]▶

>>22975134 (TP) #

+1. You're bringing me around.

My wife goes to an Asian hairdresser for all important hair work because they better understand her hair. Nothing wrong with that. So why not the same for doctors?

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