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98.css – design system for building faithful recreations of Windows 98 UIs

(jdan.github.io)
838 points bennettfeely | 16 comments | 21 Apr 20 23:51 UTC | HN request time: 1.682s | source | bottom
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atum47 ◴[22 Apr 20 04:30 UTC] No.22942201[source]▶
that's really gorgeous. I find windows 95 aesthetics a master piece. I'm not gonna lie, I thought about windows 95 when I was creating FOS, my Fake Operational System "framework".

I'm thinking about refactoring it and I'll may incorporate windows color scheme to it. Here's the link if you wanna see what I am talking about.

https://github.com/victorqribeiro/fos

replies(3): >>22942674 #>>22943580 #>>22943744 #
Scapeghost ◴[22 Apr 20 09:31 UTC] No.22943744[source]▶
I don't know, Windows 95 looked crude even during its day. Functional, but not pleasant. I guess Brutalist would be the term? As soon as there was the ability to skin it, people tried to veer away the default look, with Mac-like styles being a common alternative.

People probably have rose-tinted nostalgia for the 95 era because of the nightmare that followed: Windows XP :)

replies(2): >>22943937 #>>22944687 #
djsumdog ◴[22 Apr 20 09:58 UTC] No.22943937[source]▶
95 and XP both had good scroll bars. XP styling was pretty good for its era. Modern day scroll bars are atrocious on a lot of toolkits.
replies(2): >>22944103 #>>22944173 #
chrisseaton ◴[22 Apr 20 10:44 UTC] No.22944173[source]▶
Now that we have touch gestures we don’t really need visible scroll bars anymore do we? Just the little position indicator that pops up while scrolling.
replies(2): >>22944257 #>>22944686 #
worble ◴[22 Apr 20 10:58 UTC] No.22944257[source]▶
What if you want to know the relative length of a page without scrolling first?

What if it's one of those webpages with a full height hero as the first element and no indicator you can actually scroll?

What if I want to click and drag the scroll to a specific location but have to take wild flailing guesses at where the scrollbar actually is because it keeps going invisible?

replies(1): >>22944293 #
chrisseaton ◴[22 Apr 20 11:06 UTC] No.22944293[source]▶
There’s always obscure use cases like this. You could go on forever listing individual people’s wants and you’d end up with a Homer car.

We design interfaces for the many first, and keep them as simple as possible but not simpler.

replies(3): >>22944371 #>>22944426 #>>22945080 #
1. Symbiote ◴[22 Apr 20 11:28 UTC] No.22944426[source]▶
Knowing how long a document is, and whereabouts your current view is, seems pretty fundamental.

You may as well argue against page numbers in books.

replies(2): >>22944433 #>>22944446 #
2. chrisseaton ◴[22 Apr 20 11:29 UTC] No.22944433[source]▶
You just scroll a tiny bit and you can see. Doesn't need to on the screen all the time, taking up space, distracting from the content which is what I care about, rather than whizz-bang user-interface elements.
replies(2): >>22944668 #>>22944776 #
3. Scapeghost ◴[22 Apr 20 11:32 UTC] No.22944446[source]▶
> You may as well argue against page numbers in books.

Actually, yes, when was the last time you looked at a page number in an e-book? They don't make sense anyway when you can resize the reader.

replies(2): >>22944799 #>>22945008 #
4. noisem4ker ◴[22 Apr 20 12:09 UTC] No.22944668[source]▶
Me asking myself "how long is this article" before I start reading it is a distraction? Too bad, I can't help but want to know. I could've learned that instantly by unconsciously glancing at the scroll indicator, but instead I have to move the whole content down for it to appear (possibly with a whizz-bang animation, no less), introducing friction and further distracting me from the content. Good job, I guess.
replies(1): >>22944679 #
5. chrisseaton ◴[22 Apr 20 12:11 UTC] No.22944679{3}[source]▶
I don't know what you tell you - most people don't think about user interfaces like this. As we can clearly tell by people not designing them like this anymore.
replies(3): >>22944774 #>>22945257 #>>22961967 #
6. noisem4ker ◴[22 Apr 20 12:25 UTC] No.22944774{4}[source]▶
If I were to find a causal relation, it would be the opposite: people not expecting affordances such as scroll indicators would be a result of designers hiding them in the first place.
7. ZoomZoomZoom ◴[22 Apr 20 12:25 UTC] No.22944776[source]▶
There are margins on the screen 95% of the time, it's a perfect place for a tiny 1-3px scroll indicator.
8. ZoomZoomZoom ◴[22 Apr 20 12:27 UTC] No.22944799[source]▶
Actually, they very much do:

1. As a relative marker of a current position.

2. As an absolute number when your ebook/reader screws up saving its state.

replies(1): >>22946216 #
9. Minor49er ◴[22 Apr 20 12:57 UTC] No.22945008[source]▶
>Actually, yes, when was the last time you looked at a page number in an e-book? Every time I read an ebook, I look at the page numbers. I would be frustrated without knowing where I am or how much longer I have to go
10. Symbiote ◴[22 Apr 20 13:24 UTC] No.22945257{4}[source]▶
As far as I'm concerned, the people designing modern user interface styles are not doing it for my benefit.

They're doing it to sell adverts (removing the boundaries between content, forms and advertising), track where I'm looking (he's opened the scroll bar! our content is engaging/boring!), adopt fashions to make their competitors appear dated and justify their own careers.

replies(1): >>22962002 #
11. Scapeghost ◴[22 Apr 20 14:58 UTC] No.22946216{3}[source]▶
1. Is solved by "N Pages left in chapter" which is more useful than "Page N"

2. There is no "absolute number" of pages on a e-reader app or device because the window or font size can change, changing all the page numbers. You can have 100 pages or 200 pages.

replies(1): >>22947958 #
12. ZoomZoomZoom ◴[22 Apr 20 17:23 UTC] No.22947958{4}[source]▶
1. It's also solved by X/Y where X: page number, Y: total pages.

2. Most users read from fullscreen readers on their phones or ebooks, so the window size doesn't really change. I also strongly advice setting on a font for a particular book and stick to it. From my POV (unbacked by science) it helps with recall. If you don't change the font or other layout settings, the "pages" retain their numeration.

replies(1): >>22953328 #
13. Scapeghost ◴[23 Apr 20 06:21 UTC] No.22953328{5}[source]▶
> 1. It's also solved

So you agree that there's an alternative solution to page numbers, but you want to go back to page numbers?

> 2. Most users read from fullscreen readers on their phones or ebooks, so the window size doesn't really change.

Font sizes can change, changing the number of pages.

replies(1): >>22954389 #
14. ZoomZoomZoom ◴[23 Apr 20 10:09 UTC] No.22954389{6}[source]▶
> So you agree that there's an alternative solution to page numbers, but you want to go back to page numbers? Yes, and I never had any reason to go away from them so I never did. > Font sizes can change, changing the number of pages. Fonts don't do it themselves, though.
15. perl4ever ◴[23 Apr 20 21:52 UTC] No.22961967{4}[source]▶
Most user interfaces are not designed any more with any intent to provide what's best for the user, because they are part of a product being sold to corporations/advertisers.
16. perl4ever ◴[23 Apr 20 21:55 UTC] No.22962002{5}[source]▶
More than that, it's totally adversarial. I don't think the interface on a typical website is just sloppy or badly designed; it's designed to hamper access to information in a very sophisticated way, in order to prevent people from getting what they are looking for and leaving, but at the same time keeping them on the hook with the perception they are almost there.