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Stripe raises $600M at nearly $36B valuation

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721 points hhs | 3 comments | 16 Apr 20 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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pc ◴[16 Apr 20 15:41 UTC] No.22890523[source]▶
Stripe cofounder here. This isn't really new -- it's an extension of our last round (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/19/fintech-start-up-stripe-notc...).

That said, we've seen a big spike in signups over the past few weeks. If any HN readers have integrated recently and have feedback, we're always eager to hear it. Feel free to email me at patrick@stripe.com and I'll route to the right team(s).

As always, thank you to the many HNers who are also active Stripe users!

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wilg ◴[16 Apr 20 17:49 UTC] No.22891797[source]▶
We had to move off of Stripe because Stripe doesn't handle tax collection and remittance. We've moved to Paddle which takes care of that for us. Recommend!
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Silhouette ◴[16 Apr 20 20:28 UTC] No.22893184[source]▶
We looked into Paddle recently as a possible way of handling the payment mechanics and the tax and compliance issues for a new business. It looked quite promising on both of those fronts.

Then we read their legal terms, found about half a dozen obvious deal-breakers, and lost all interest.

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cercatrova ◴[16 Apr 20 23:33 UTC] No.22894667{3}[source]▶
I'm not familiar with Paddle versus Stripe, what are (some of) the dealbreakers? And does Stripe not have these same dealbreakers?
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1. Silhouette ◴[17 Apr 20 05:59 UTC] No.22896600{4}[source]▶
Among other things, it appears that Paddle

1. reserves the right to unilaterally vary the contract in any way, with immediate effect and without actively notifying the merchant

2. ensures that if anything goes wrong, any legal action against it by its merchants would have to be taken in another country and under another legal system, even if Paddle operates in the merchant's own country

3. takes extensive control of the product or service they are selling on their merchant's behalf, to the extent that they can sell it to whoever they want, sell it at whatever price they want, give demos to whoever they want, etc.

4. requires that any software it is selling on behalf of its merchants be bug-free, and that the merchants accept liability for anything bad that happens if it isn't.

It's hard to take any service seriously when it has terms like that in its standard agreement. Unless these kinds of terms are unenforceable where you are (or where Paddle is, given the above?) and you have a legal opinion telling you so that you trust enough to bet your entire business on it, it seems like you'd have to be crazy to accept them.

I've seen some very one-sided terms from other payment services before, but I take them at their word that those terms are typically required by the giants behind the systems like the card networks and banking groups. I think some of those should be also be unenforceable by law, but right now that seems to be the price of admission. I've never seen anyone else seriously suggesting the kinds of terms that Paddle is, though.

Edit: Changed to present tense, after checking Paddle's legal terms of use at the time of writing at https://paddle.com/legal/ to confirm that these criticisms are still current. The first two points above are in the preamble at the start of the document. The third is under 4.2 and 6.1. The fourth is under 13.1(ii) and 13.2(ii).

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2. cercatrova ◴[17 Apr 20 11:38 UTC] No.22898114[source]▶
I've taken a look at the terms, and it seems to me like they are more for when Paddle acts as your ecommerce store rather than just your payment gateway. This is where the right to demo and sell the product shows up, because without that, you wouldn't be able to use Paddle to sell your product. Again, this is not the same as what Stripe is offering, it's more akin to Gumroad, Podia, and the like. Also, while I understand appeal to authority to not be the most trusting of options, it seems like many other well-known companies use Paddle, and I assume their legal teams have scoured through Paddle's terms of use, so it looks good enough for me.
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3. Silhouette ◴[17 Apr 20 12:31 UTC] No.22898416[source]▶
I've taken a look at the terms, and it seems to me like they are more for when Paddle acts as your ecommerce store rather than just your payment gateway.

That might have been the intent, but I see nothing in the terms that restricts the scope of those I mentioned to that situation.

And the general "we can change anything we like and you can't easily sue us ever" would be inappropriate even in that situation.

I assume their legal teams have scoured through Paddle's terms of use

I respectfully suggest that this is an extremely dangerous assumption when you're talking about a binding legal agreement and the future of your business.

I've occasionally had a real lawyer look at the terms for some very popular online services that we were considering using, particularly when I thought they looked risky, and received formal advice along the lines of, "Run away. Don't walk. Run."