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What Happened to Lee

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1298 points jgrahamc | 2 comments | 15 Apr 20 14:31 UTC | HN request time: 0.489s | source
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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[15 Apr 20 16:14 UTC] No.22879511[source]▶
Perhaps this is too philosophical, but for anyone who has dealt with someone with a long decline into dementia, it's very difficult for me to understand a belief in God after going through that (I certainly understand some people have the exact opposite reaction, so I'm in no way saying this belief is correct).

It's just difficult for me to envision a crueler God if that is indeed the case. A person who has died long before their body gives way, only to be a constant burden, with virtually no joy, and a constant reminder that your loved one is dead, yet still here.

In the worst cases I say unreservedly that it is a huge relief when the person's body finally joins their mind in death.

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tylershuster ◴[15 Apr 20 17:27 UTC] No.22880516[source]▶
I truly feel for your loss. Two of my grandparents have gone or are going through dementia.

I don't think that this has any bearing on the existence of God, however. Humans are the ones who have created such an overwhelming and toxic physical environment and disconnected social one. For God to truly endow us with free will, He had to allow us to fail, even this miserably, and to cause our contemporaries and descendants to suffer for our failures. We have the hope of Christ's return and eternal life but only after everyone has been given the opportunity to turn to God for hope on earth.

I don't mean to prosthletize — this is how I understand the world and helps keep me hopeful in times of grief, and I hope it helps you too.

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fellowniusmonk ◴[15 Apr 20 18:43 UTC] No.22881404[source]▶
If freewill is so sacred why does the OT and NT have so many examples of freewill being removed? Like in 2 Kings 1:10 and other places, if God is fine with freewill being ignored, and God never changes, then he can act, and if he can act would he not be considered unjust by Jesus words in Luke 18:1-8? Not a gotcha or academic question, just something on my mind recently.
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1. tylershuster ◴[15 Apr 20 18:58 UTC] No.22881617[source]▶
I'm not positive that the 2 Kings example is exactly free will being removed, because Elijah asks God for what happens, and God does respond to prayer (praying with faith is another issue).

But I do see what you're asking — how God seems to step in more often in the OT. Thinking of all of human history from ~4000BC until now where Mankind "grows up" over time, the concept of God as Father works — parents put a lot of restrictions on their kids when they're young to keep them safe, and remove those restrictions over time. Even if the child does something unsafe at a certain point a parent just has to say "now that you know the consequences, you have to live with them."

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2. fellowniusmonk ◴[15 Apr 20 19:47 UTC] No.22882179[source]▶
I mean the people who got torched had their freewill removed without warning, death by direct action of God. The issue is not with boundary setting, the issue is with Jesus seemingly calling himself (God) unjust, since freewill doesn't seem like an inviolable issue, if God doesn't have a hard restriction on effecting freewill (which seems to be the case) then he is seemingly the same as the unjust judge? I understand the argument from Job that people aren't to question God because we are simple clay to him, or the argument that people are evil and deserve nothing less than eternal suffering, but since Jesus set the expectation and made the connection directly in Luke it seems like a non-upheld internal measure/standard of God's own?