←back to thread

1597 points seapunk | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
mikestew ◴[] No.22703219[source]
I have a need for Zoom, virus or no, but the point of the article is why I don't give them money. Give them money, while the company is apparently still going to worry about milking advertising dollars out of me? That's just going to be a strong "no". As the final paragraph of TFA says, either charge more or give away less for free. But if you're selling me out to advertisers after I've given you money, then you're one of "those" companies that I avoid if at all possible. Because they're skeezy. You don't want to appear skeezy, do you, Zoom?

So for now Skype and MS Teams works fine, or at least fine enough that I don't bother with Zoom. Which brings me to a side question: what is the value proposition for Zoom? What does their product do so much better than the others that I'd put up with this shit? Why am I hearing the hell out of it lately? Outstanding PR department?

EDIT: thanks for your answers to “why use it, then?” Because “it just works” seems to be the summary, which hoo boy, one cannot say about a lot of the competition.

replies(29): >>22703265 #>>22703271 #>>22703364 #>>22703382 #>>22703404 #>>22703580 #>>22703612 #>>22703697 #>>22703733 #>>22703760 #>>22703778 #>>22703833 #>>22704080 #>>22704128 #>>22704400 #>>22704642 #>>22704814 #>>22705137 #>>22705220 #>>22705347 #>>22705917 #>>22706107 #>>22706304 #>>22706493 #>>22707187 #>>22707586 #>>22708730 #>>22708818 #>>22709124 #
impendia ◴[] No.22703382[source]
> What does their product do so much better than the others that I'd put up with this shit?

I'll share my perspective as an academic. Many of us have adopted Zoom, practically overnight, for our teaching, for one-on-one meetings with students, and even for conferences [1].

The answer is: It just works. It's easy. It does what we want it to, with a minimum of fuss.

As someone who now has a whole bunch of unanticipated shit to deal with, this is one less thing to worry about.

I definitely share your objection in principle. If this situation continues long into the future (a terrifying thought), then perhaps I'll revisit my choice of software. But in the short term, to be honest, I don't much care.

[1] https://www.daniellitt.com/agonize/

replies(11): >>22703420 #>>22703766 #>>22705467 #>>22705546 #>>22705584 #>>22706044 #>>22706113 #>>22706132 #>>22706184 #>>22707182 #>>22707723 #
hobs ◴[] No.22703420[source]
Really trying to figure out a response that isnt flip - but if you give up your principals when something is difficult, why have them at all?
replies(6): >>22703457 #>>22703466 #>>22703504 #>>22703532 #>>22703670 #>>22704618 #
impendia ◴[] No.22703532[source]
So some company I don't like will advertise at me. I don't like it, but I don't care that much.

I am prioritizing. During the present COVID-19 situation, my top two priorities are (1) maintain my health, including my mental health, and refrain from posing a health hazard to others, and (2) maintain my relationships with my students, colleagues, and collaborators.

As I see it, if I give some skeezy private company some personal information by accident, then I am making a personal sacrifice, and not all that big of one. I'm trying to worry about my duties to others first.

replies(1): >>22703603 #
luckylion ◴[] No.22703603[source]
> So some company I don't like will advertise at me. I don't like it, but I don't care that much.

You're normalizing it and making your students use it though, so it's really not "it affects me, but I don't care enough", it affects others as well. And let's not kid ourselves: once it's established, nobody will switch to something else, because they'd have to explain and guide everyone they want to talk to to install another app etc.

replies(3): >>22703667 #>>22703905 #>>22705477 #
1. impendia ◴[] No.22703905[source]
The first is a fair criticism, point taken.

Your second point I disagree with; I think if people raise objections, encourage people to switch, and volunteer to shepherd others through the technical details -- then people will be agreeable, and we'll see a shift which will gradually become pervasive.

replies(3): >>22704337 #>>22704480 #>>22705993 #
2. zenhack ◴[] No.22704337[source]
> Your second point I disagree with; I think if people raise objections, encourage people to switch, and volunteer to shepherd others through the technical details -- then people will be agreeable, and we'll see a shift which will gradually become pervasive.

This doesn't square with any experience I've ever had trying to get $alternative_technology adopted because of $principle in favor of $default_thing, and from what I've gleaned talking to others, and reading the experiences of others online, the problem isn't me.

Maybe post Cambridge Analytica the world has changed -- I at least don't get looked at like I have three heads when I tell people I'm not on Facebook anymore -- but if folks are still responding to complaints about privacy issues like this with what amounts to "meh, don't have the energy" then I'm skeptical. If zoom becomes "the standard," I don't think the inertia will be much easier to overcome.

3. luckylion ◴[] No.22704480[source]
I'd love for it to be so, but social inertia is a big factor. It's easiest to just use what everybody else is using, you won't have complications and, very important, you won't stick out.

It can change rapidly in small communities, e.g. you getting everyone in your department together, deciding on $goodAlternative and using that whenever possible (in addition to Zoom, because you'll still have to communicate with the outside world). But at large?

4. thoraway1010 ◴[] No.22705993[source]
Absolutely not. I actually tried this.

As soon as something goes wrong with your solution - everyone goes, why aren't we using zoom. Literally totally non-techies - that will be their first bit of feedback (I tried to go with google hangouts).