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China

(drewdevault.com)
847 points kick | 2 comments | 20 Nov 19 15:44 UTC | HN request time: 0.431s | source
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gregwebs ◴[20 Nov 19 16:44 UTC] No.21585487[source]▶
I don't necessarily disagree with the article, I just want to point out that outside of the US others will readily view this line of thought as hypocritical and self-serving.

As a US citizen, I try to consider how the rest of the world may view our actions (glass houses and all). Following the logic here it would make sense for the rest of the world to cutoff trade with the United States due to the Iraq war, which has caused many civilian deaths.

But if you agree that the rest of the world should have sanctioned the US for the Iraq war (among other things) then there might be a consistency with trying to sanction China.

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jeffdavis ◴[20 Nov 19 18:39 UTC] No.21586945[source]▶
There's no moral equivalence between China's totalitarianism and the U.S. China is worse by orders of magnitude both in degree and kind.

Comparing the two is just an excuse to do nothing.

In the meantime, feel free (pun intended) to protest misdeeds by the U.S., vote for new leaders, organize with like-minded individuals, or buy weapons.

(Aside: many people feel like buying weapons is completely futile against oppression. But it reduces your dependence on the government for protection, and makes it harder for the federal government to convince local police to carry out their dirty work. Also, really bad governments never seem to want citizens to be armed, so perhaps there's a reason for that.)

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1. iandanforth ◴[20 Nov 19 19:08 UTC] No.21587292[source]▶
Meta: I think the rhetoric of humility is more powerful here.

"We are not perfect, but we can't stand by. We have sins of our own that we are trying to rectify, but we cannot allow what you're doing."

The flaw in mutual criticism without admission of guilt is that saying "we're good" even in comparison is so obviously self-serving that it gives your opponent a trivial excuse to dismiss you.

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2. jeffdavis ◴[20 Nov 19 20:24 UTC] No.21588094[source]▶
Americans are admitting our flaws, constantly. And when we do that, we don't compare ourselves to China to divert the issue. But debates about China always end up with this diversion into US flaws.