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847 points kick | 1 comments | 20 Nov 19 15:44 UTC | HN request time: 0.221s | source
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baron_harkonnen ◴[20 Nov 19 16:26 UTC] No.21585275[source]▶
If I might post an unpopular opinion, and let me assure you I'm not secretly a pro-CCP shill: what's happening HK has much more to do with changing economic realities than it does with an evil agenda from the Chinese government.

In 1997 HK had 1/3 of the GDP of mainland China and was the only way for Western companies to interact with China. Today HK has 3% of the GDP of mainland China and a huge part of this is because China has opened its borders to foreign investment. Shenzhen has a thriving economy because if you're a western company and want to do business with China, you can just go there and do business. In the past you would have had to go through Hong Kong to make this happen.

The Hong Kong riots were sparked because China wanted to extradite someone who murdered his girlfriend in Taiwan and then went to hide in HK to avoid extradition. If the same thing happened in the united states we would be equally furious. Of course I'm not stupid, I know that this extradition is part of a growing feeling of increasingly powerful influence of China on HK, and I know this because this how independent nations feel when the US similarly puts extradition pressure on other countries. Look what happened with Julian Assange!

But the protests in Hong Kong aren't just about some emergent "evil" coming from China. Their part of the economic and social anxiety that comes from having your economic power completely change in the span of 20 years. In America we know power and independence go hand in hand.

I'm equally as wary of growing Chinese political power as I am of US Hegemony. But the current strife in Hong Kong is perfect propaganda fuel for both the US and China. Both nations essentially get to stoke the flames of nationalism while HK suffers. I strong encourage people to at least question the prevailing narratives from both sides and start to look at the economic realities of what's happening.

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chrchang523[dead post] ◴[20 Nov 19 17:21 UTC] No.21585967[source]▶
You're missing the point, which is that the people of HK are obviously capable of a higher level of self-government, and the CCP could have chosen to allow that under the "one country, two systems" framework. All of the other members of its "Asian Tiger" cohort (South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore) have that.

The CCP was not legally obligated to do so, of course; Drew IS wrong about the illegality of the CCP's behavior here. And as a practical matter, trying to deprive China of the territory of Hong Kong is a fool's errand.

But the talented people of HK who stayed in 1997 in the hopes that the rest of China would meet them closer to halfway do not need to remain. And, now that close to a billion Chinese have been lifted out of grinding poverty by the economic policies of the last 40 years, any economic moral obligation the West had towards the Chinese people has been met; there's no particular reason for the West to further subsidize Chinese development over further development of India, Indonesia, etc.

1. slowenough ◴[20 Nov 19 18:14 UTC] No.21586630[source]▶
that's rich. The Hong Kong people had their freedom and autonomy. And what have they done with it? squandered it. They've been subjects of an empire. They are not equipped to rule themselves. They don't seek self-determination and autonomy and responsibility for creating their future they seek to blame the government or China or the police. and now they are seeking to destroy not to create. And yet they should possess greater freedom?