←back to thread

China

(drewdevault.com)
847 points kick | 4 comments | 20 Nov 19 15:44 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
mc32 ◴[20 Nov 19 16:11 UTC] No.21585110[source]▶
>”It’s economically productive for the 1% to maintain a trade relationship with China. The financial incentives don’t help any Americans, and in fact, most of us are hurt by this relationship...”

So true, since its inception with GHW, its execution and realization through Clinton and then once fully engaged the timid, supplicant responses from GW and BO, China has contributed to the stagnation of the blue collar worker on America with the full complicity of Democrats, Republicans and most of Industry and even unions who didn’t oppose their cozy politicians. They all only saw starry dollar signs...

That’s where we are now. People have had enough. That’s why they put up with the guy no one likes because he’s willing to sever that codependent relationship.

Now, if you ask any pol running for the nomination who the greatest threat to America is... it’s not going to be China...

replies(15): >>21585140 #>>21585157 #>>21585158 #>>21585323 #>>21585326 #>>21585341 #>>21585355 #>>21585449 #>>21585659 #>>21585680 #>>21586024 #>>21586078 #>>21586407 #>>21586727 #>>21587541 #
christophilus ◴[20 Nov 19 16:15 UTC] No.21585140[source]▶
This upcoming presidential election is definitely more interesting due to this issue. My brother is a staunch Democrat, but he's made it clear that he's not voting for them if they put someone up who's soft on China. I suspect he'd be voting 3rd party in that scenario.
replies(2): >>21585523 #>>21585573 #
lazaruzatgmail ◴[20 Nov 19 16:50 UTC] No.21585573[source]▶
which means he is voting to keep the incumbent in

This is a binary choice dem or repub any other choice is a vote for the incumbent

replies(3): >>21585644 #>>21585820 #>>21587354 #
siffland ◴[20 Nov 19 17:10 UTC] No.21585820[source]▶
I have someone I work with who quite literally mocks people for voting for a 3rd party and actually tries to "shame" them for it, usually using a line like "which means he is voting to keep the incumbent in" (usually with more colorful words about the incumbent and the voter).

Voting 3rd party exercises your right to say you don't like either of the other 2 candidates. I will not argue which candidate it will help, but i think this line of thinking is detrimental to our voting process and wrong to rub in peoples faces.

replies(5): >>21585922 #>>21586104 #>>21586577 #>>21587781 #>>21589833 #
1. Analemma_ ◴[20 Nov 19 18:11 UTC] No.21586577[source]▶
> Voting 3rd party exercises your right to say you don't like either of the other 2 candidates

You can say whatever you want, but no one is listening. Voter turnout is so low that the signal of voting 3rd-party is completely lost in the noise of passive non-voting. 3rd-party votes might feel good, but pragmatically (and what is voting except a pragmatic attempt to advance your preferred policy), they are useless.

I encourage everyone on this comment chain to read Clay Shirky's "There is no such thing as a protest vote" [0], and really take it seriously, instead of jumping to thought-terminating cliches by angrily denouncing him as a sheep or whatever. He's right.

[0]: https://medium.com/@cshirky/theres-no-such-thing-as-a-protes...

replies(3): >>21586983 #>>21587195 #>>21591343 #
2. siffland ◴[20 Nov 19 18:43 UTC] No.21586983[source]▶
Just for a clarification, when I said

"Voting 3rd party exercises your right to say you don't like either of the other 2 candidates"

I actually voted for a third party, i liked better than the other 2. It was not a protest. I did just read your link and won't denounce him as anything, but I do think telling people who vote for someone they like who is not in the main 2 parties that their vote was a "throw-away" is again not a good thing.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Although it is interesting in some other countries where there are more than 2 parties that do all compete.

3. godtoldmetodoit ◴[20 Nov 19 19:00 UTC] No.21587195[source]▶
In a Presidential election it really depends on the state you vote in. California is going team blue no matter what, Alabama team red. Voting 3rd party in one of those states is not going to change the outcome.

Florida, Michigan, Wisconsin etc the calculation totally changes of course.

4. aianus ◴[21 Nov 19 04:02 UTC] No.21591343[source]▶
Pragmatically every vote is useless. The chances that the election outcome will come down to your single vote are infinitesimal. Every individual vote is a protest vote lost in the noise. So anyone reading this should feel perfectly free to vote their conscience.