China

I don't think that the cheaper goods that China gave the world only benefited the %1, and actually has helped a lot people in america and the world.

I also don't think that the economic miracle that has happened in China is a bad thing, and they could of been more singaporean/south korean authoritarian vs. genocidal authoritarian to achieve it. I really want china to become another Japan or Korea eventually.

I do agree with you that China is basically a modern day nazi germany, pre WW2 at this point.

The logic behind opening things up with China (including allowing them to buy American companies) was that as they become economically successful, they would be more open to things like democracy. At what point do you realize you failed and close the barn door?

There are a lot of details, and it's definitely the case that countries like India, China, Mexico, Bangladesh, etc. have benefited tremendously from economic development.

But it's also the case that the US (and most of the West) is experiencing levels of income and wealth inequality not seen since the beginning of the 20th century. The profits from these economic miracles is indeed going largely to a very small number of people, even in the aforementioned countries (China's poverty statistics are frightening, for example, even by their laughably low standards).

I would say China is more like a modern day colonial America, with their own version of “manifest destiny” and treating the Uyghurs like how Native Americans were treated, by putting them into reservations and boarding schools [1] to and forcing them to assimilate.

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_sch...

This assume the goal for China is democracy, and the one the west set for them. If they failed, we must destroy their economy, take their people into poverty, because the barn door must be closed.

This narrative basically can be taken verbatim by the CCP as propaganda material. “The west didn’t like our political system that made great economical progress, and they will try to destroy your livelihood. By the way, they think the economical success of China is entirely a gift of the west. It has nothing to do with your hard working.“

So we should continue to let them buy US companies despite the reverse not being allowed? We should continue to let their companies operate freely in our markets despite the reverse not being allowed? We must maintain this double standard because the CCP might make propaganda out of it?

> I do agree with you that China is basically a modern day nazi germany, pre WW2 at this point.

That's part of my frustration with all of this w.r.t. the Hong Kong riots. China has been this way for _decades_. Finally we get some western exposure to just how determined the CCP are to control their citizenry. I hope the resistance and world exposure keep pressure on the CCP, but honestly I don't see them caving. (If you think western politics has it's problems look no further than the CCP as an example of what real dogma is all about). I know an all-out civil war would leave a country full of wonderful people in ruins, but I don't see any other way around dismantling the CCP.

Given the number of times 'national security' has been the reason for barring Chinese companies from operating in the US or anywhere else, I don't think what you describe is true any more

Name some Chinese company operate freely in US? Tiktok? What else?

Apple, Starbucks, Intel, Microsoft etc operates in China - as for freely, you define whatever that word means. American companies have a much larger namesake and presence in China than the other way around. Your complaint is the complete reverse of real life.

None of the companies you listed are allowed to operate without partnering with a Chinese company. If you accept them as operating in China, then given 95% of consumer goods have "Made in China" stamped on them, China operates just as much in the US. The above poster's point is still wrong, but so are you.

> as they become economically successful, they would be more open

this wasn't logic but faith.

Wrong, Microsoft/Apple/Starbucks did not partner with anyone. That requirement was specifically for auto/manufacture industry.

You are spreading misinformation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208351

And I would say that US treatment of Native Americans in the colonial days and US treatment of Japanese-Americans during WWII were both similar to Nazi Germany's treatment of the Jewish people. But thankfully we have moved beyond it now, unfortunately in 2019 CCP is repeating the same mistakes in Xinjiang.

And please don't call them "boarding schools". It is so disrespectful for the Uighurs who have to endure the physical and mental torture in these camps. Japanese-American internment camps during WWII were concentration camps, and CCP's "re-education" camps in Xinjiang are concentration camps too.

> I don't think that the cheaper goods that China gave the world only benefited the %1, and actually has helped a lot people in america and the world.

Extreme wealth inequality is making life difficult for many, many people today. Cheap goods from China make it easier for them to tolerate this situation, and therefore less likely to take action to change it. One view of this would be that cheap goods are helping people. Another would be that cheap goods help the wealthy elite to continue unchallenged, furthering wealth inequality over time, and making overall quality of life much worse for everyone else in the long run.

Originally we were talking about the 51/49 ownership split for partnership. You posted a domestic contracting to satisfy Chinese government regulation? How is that related to the partnership criteria that we were talking about? You are comparing apples to orange here.

> I don't think that the cheaper goods that China gave the world only benefited the %1

I look at this from the perspective of the rust-belt. It doesn't really help that you can buy a Chinese-made couch for only $500 if you've long since lost your job at the furniture factory.

Exactly. People keep on saying people can “buy more” because things are cheaper! But that ignores the fact those people just scraping by having to work service jobs would rather pay more and have a job that would afford them raising a family.

I remember in public school, the janitor (before the whole title inflation took hold) made enough money to raise a family.

That doesn’t happen much any more. That job has been outsourced to cheap labor. Cheap because of two things people in mfg don’t have a job and will work for less and two low skilled labor coming in and adding downward pressure to wages.

I think the mass Uighur genocide and relatively recent economic & military power was the real tipping point. Before that they were yet another dictatorship.

That is a fairly recent development, while the opposite has been status quo for multiple decades.

The rust belt is only one part of the american economy, and China is not the only explanation of their fall. The Canadian maritime use to be a fairly wealthy region, until the fish ran out. Now it's been like the rust belt for a long time and one of the poorest regions of canada.

Other parts have become ascendant, such as our software & service industries. The american auto industry also killed themselves, mostly because peaceful Japanese competitors out competed them.