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2525 points hownottowrite | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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zwaps ◴[] No.21190952[source]
Then we have to boycott Hearthstone. While the current case is neither surprising nor substantially important, it is important because of principle.

Blizzard is not responsible for what players say in interviews. In our society, it still matters that people can tolerate other opinions.

The Chinese government tries to make it a new normal that entire people can have their "feelings hurt" (what?) by mere non-insulting opinions, and it tries to make it a new normal that all actors should censor any undesirable or potentially undesirable opinion.

If that is indeed the way, then our society and the discourse therein is no longer free, and the CCP has won.

We need to keep these firms in our mind. We need to keep a list of when this happens, and we need to sanction this as best as we can. Similarly, anyone standing up to censorship should have our support.

I can be pro HK, or I can be pro China, and I can voice opinions because doing so either way is an equally valid form of free expression. But it can not be that one side gets pre-emptively censored to appease the CCP, or any actor with the power to DEFINE the bar of what is reasonable expression of opinions.

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StevePerkins ◴[] No.21191296[source]
> "a new normal that entire people can have their "feelings hurt" (what?) by mere non-insulting opinions, and it tries to make it a new normal that all actors should censor any undesirable or potentially undesirable opinion"

Umm... yeah... but... oh boy... okay look, I AGREE with your ultimate conclusion here. But I think you might need a new rubric which with to argue it. Because as-written, this calls to mind half of all social interaction within United States culture today.

To differentiate these things, you have to tap dance around the "non-insulting opinions" qualifier. Which is kind of a mess, because we've largely coalesced around the idea that insult should be determined by the insulted.

I do think there's a great (and obvious) point here. I'd love to see it phrased differently, because that might be helpful more broadly.

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aesh2Xa1 ◴[] No.21191375[source]
> we've largely coalesced around the idea that insult should be defined by the insulted.

I know that is not an opinion I share. I suspect it is not one many people share at all. I think it's just the one of a vocal minority on the far left.

Ideas have a place in the open. If they're going to die somewhere, it needs to be in public discourse.

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sbarre ◴[] No.21191528{3}[source]
> I think it's just the one of a vocal minority on the far left.

I think you might be allowing your bias to zero in on one particular group here. Outrage politics is everyone's tool these days, not just one "side" (if you insist on picking sides).

I don't consider myself to be on either side, but a counterpoint for you to consider: "if you're not with us, you're against us", or "pry my guns from my cold dead hands"..

These are examples of using ideological offence to an idea or concept as a way to shut down discourse.

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1. aesh2Xa1 ◴[] No.21203461{4}[source]
Is it a bias? I definitely intended to zero in. My bubble is a bunch of podcasts and NYMag articles in which I'm told that the people wanting to shut down speech are doing so to protect ourselves from hateful speech at the expense of expression, discussion, and dissent.

If that is everyone's tool then can we agree that my calling out of one group was bad, but that the sentiment against the idea is correct?

I think you mean "side" as political party or ideology in a way that I don't hold, unless you actually mean siding with "insults should be defined by the insulted" versus "not necessarily."

Can you elaborate on your examples and how they counter something that I claimed? I read both as examples of rhetoric that are best countered by continued discourse and not the false dichotomy presented:

1) you are either permanently an opponent or will accept my idea 2) you are required to engage in violence with me to resolve our difference

I can't find the original comment so some of the context is missing (I can find my comment, though).