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1456 points pulisse | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.256s | source
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yungcoder ◴[] No.21187453[source]
Between this and the NBA's capitulation to making the Rockets' GM retract his statements on Hong Kong, at what point does appeasement just become acceptance of China's behavior? Sure, from the individual business' perspective they don't want to risk alienating the Chinese government and losing the Chinese market, but if China sees that they can get their way by simply threatening foreign companies then it will just embolden them to push for more concessions down the road. Quite frankly this all stinks of 1930s European appeasement policy and we all know how that turned out.
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spats1990 ◴[] No.21187719[source]
If you think 2019 China is that similar to 1930s Germany you should just come right out and say it, in my opinion. Let that argument stand on its merits.

If you didn't intend a parallel between 1930s Germany and 2019 China, there is, again in my opinion only, probably a better way of making your point.

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yungcoder ◴[] No.21187894[source]
Assuming you argue in good faith, how about this:

1. Germany annexed the Rhineland, Sudetenland, and Austria using the justification of unifying German-speaking peoples under a single banner. The Chinese line for Hong Kong and Taiwan is the same -- you look Chinese, you are Chinese and to say otherwise is treason and will get you labeled an American lap-dog. I can tell you this firsthand as a Chinese-American and if you need a more concrete example, just look at how the Chinese treated Gary Locke.

2. Revenge for the perceived humiliation of Versailles was a core driving factor for the rise of Nazism in post-Weimar Germany. If you can give me another explanation for the state of Chinese-Japanese relations, I will eat my words.

3. Go on any Chinese social media site and the amount of nationalist rhetoric you'll find is quite disturbing. Having pride in your country is one thing, to insist on your national, racial, and cultural supremacy is another.

4. Google what's going on in Xinjiang and tell me that doesn't stink of something.

Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist, and it would certainly be in the best interest for the world if I were, but ask yourself -- what are the stakes this time if I'm not?

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spats1990 ◴[] No.21187987[source]
1. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc.

2. This point appears to be about how unfair historical treatment can lead to fascism. Are you saying that the people of China are headed in this direction?

3. I'll defer to your judgement as I presume you read mandarin/canto, but I don't see a big difference from western social networks there, except for probably in terms of number of users (larger userbase) . I can read Korean fairly well and see those kinds of nationalist comments on Korean social media sites as well (funnily enough, they also aren't fans of Japan at the moment. )

4. I know what's happening there and am a little hurt you'd assume I'd get into a discussion like this without knowing. Human rights abuses are bad. That seems like the most one can say without getting accused of whataboutism. Are there gas chambers in those camps? (edit:clarification below)

>Maybe I'm wrong and just being an alarmist

Maybe you're right and I'm just trying to hope for the best.

My original post on this thread came mostly from shock as I was raised on the internet era where it was considered a faux pas to do blithe Nazi comparisons. so I was mildly astounded to see that the top voted comment in here boiled down to "China is Weimar/Nazi Germany."

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yumraj ◴[] No.21188190[source]
> 1. Germany was preparing for outright war throughout the 1930s. Conscription was introduced in 1935.Is China seriously planning to militarily annex Taiwan? Leaving aside propaganda etc.

China is one of those rare countries in today's world which has border conflicts with each and every of its neighbors and is openly ignoring international norms. On top of that I don't think that it is investing heavily in military just for show.

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1. DiogenesKynikos ◴[] No.21188985[source]
> China is one of those rare countries in today's world which has border conflicts with each and every of its neighbors

Many countries have territorial disputes. India has territorial disputes with China and Pakistan. Japan has territorial disputes with Russia, South Korea and China (and Taiwan, if you count them as a country). Basically every country bordering the South China Sea has territorial disputes with every other country bordering the sea.

Yet China hasn't fought a war since 1979, which is something that gets lost in all these discussions. It doesn't fit with the China = expansionist Nazi Germany narrative, I guess.

> is openly ignoring international norms

There's a very good case to be made that China respects international norms much more than the United States does. The US has repeatedly violated the most important post-WWII international norm - the ban on aggressive war. For citizens of the country that invaded Iraq without provocation and caused the deaths of a million people there, it's a bit rich to go on and on about China not respecting international norms.

> I don't think that it is investing heavily in military just for show.

Definitely not for show. They're afraid of the United States military, which is funded to the tune of $700 billion/year. China spends a tiny fraction of that on its military. Even as a fraction of GDP, China's military spending is small compared to that of the US.