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    1456 points pulisse | 15 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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    degenerate ◴[] No.21182905[source]
    The degree that China goes to censor things reminds me of kindergarten. Pull the shades down, and kids won't want to go outside? Is it simply a reminder to their people of who's in charge, at this level of pettiness?
    replies(11): >>21183033 #>>21183054 #>>21183058 #>>21183083 #>>21183160 #>>21183192 #>>21183280 #>>21183394 #>>21183622 #>>21183659 #>>21184855 #
    thrwn_frthr_awy ◴[] No.21183160[source]
    China is showing the ability to control one of the world's largest, and most advanced companies. It isn't petty–it is scary. The U.S. and others have sold their soul to the devil for $299 flat screen tvs.
    replies(6): >>21183361 #>>21183382 #>>21183505 #>>21183521 #>>21183544 #>>21183595 #
    1. jaynetics ◴[] No.21183521[source]
    > The U.S. and others have sold their soul to the devil for $299 flat screen tvs.

    This seems to suggest the populace is at fault, wanting and buying cheap gadgets no matter what the consequences are?

    In truth, I think most people are simply unaware of the many problems caused both by consumerism, and the moral spinelessness of pretty much all large corporations and how that is brought about by market forces. Even in politics I'd say that there is, besides some malfeasance, also limited understanding of complicated issues. (Remember the congressman asking Zuckerberg how Facebook made any money?)

    replies(6): >>21183757 #>>21183763 #>>21183779 #>>21183938 #>>21184303 #>>21185539 #
    2. thrwn_frthr_awy ◴[] No.21183757[source]
    > This seems to suggest the populace is at fault, wanting and buying cheap gadgets no matter what the consequences are?

    I'm sorry it came off that way, as I do not blame people for the propaganda of their government (U.S. or China).

    I do absolutely believe that we shouldn't be able to off-shore environmental/worker's rights policies. If you want to sell something in California, it should be made with the same environmental standards that making it in California would require.

    replies(1): >>21185739 #
    3. eternalban ◴[] No.21183763[source]
    > This seems to suggest the populace is at fault, wanting and buying cheap gadgets no matter what the consequences are?

    I didn't read GP's "others" as "populace". One reading would have the U.S. and other [governments] have given in to excessive demands of China.

    Now the "devil" in the question doesn't necessarily have to be China. It could be Global Finance -- an abstraction which believe it or not is reasonably reducible to actual people and families, the fabled "1%" [sic].

    4. wccrawford ◴[] No.21183779[source]
    I'd push the blame a little further on. Many, many people are just struggling to get by, and they pay as little as they possible can for their luxury goods.

    If they weren't struggling to get by on the wages they make, they could afford to be a little more picky about what they buy and how it's created.

    replies(2): >>21183959 #>>21184077 #
    5. baybal2 ◴[] No.21183938[source]
    > The U.S. and others have sold their soul to the devil for $299 flat screen tvs.

    I believe it's more appropriate to say that they sold their souls at 230 dollars per share.

    replies(1): >>21184281 #
    6. leppr ◴[] No.21183959[source]
    The present piece of news goes against that argument though, as Apple devices are simultaneously the more expensive and less ethical option. These aspects don't seem correlated.
    replies(1): >>21184841 #
    7. jaynetics ◴[] No.21184077[source]
    Good point. This is compounded by the fact that people under pressure are understandably less interested in moral issues and have less time to inform themselves.

    On the other hand, it would be easier for at least some of these people to get by if having a large TV or this year's smartphone wasn't part of "getting by".

    8. filoleg ◴[] No.21184281[source]
    > they sold their souls at 230 dollars per share

    I realize you are referencing something specific, but I wanted to make sure I got it correctly. Current TSLA share price?

    replies(1): >>21184954 #
    9. munificent ◴[] No.21184303[source]
    > I think most people are simply unaware of the many problems caused both by consumerism, and the moral spinelessness of pretty much all large corporations and how that is brought about by market forces.

    I believe this is one of the fundamental flaws and challenges of capitalism. Corporations are great usability wise because serve as an abstraction for accessing a product. You put some money in and you get a widget out, without having to worry or know about where that widget came from.

    But the consequence of that is that you are insulated from all of the negative externalities involved in creating that widget. You just wanted some cheap eggs, and you didn't realize you were inadvertently causing chickens to be raised in inhumane factory settings. You wanted a bottle of water and you didn't realize it was being pumped out of a national park.

    It's like using some really nice, convenient API and only discovering later that every time you called getFoo(), the backend went out and killed a kitten.

    10. dpkonofa ◴[] No.21184841{3}[source]
    >less ethical option

    Are you getting that because of this flag issue or is there more behind that? I would argue that Apple is, by far, the more ethical option.

    replies(1): >>21187980 #
    11. saagarjha ◴[] No.21184954{3}[source]
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=AAPL
    12. wolco ◴[] No.21185539[source]
    Most people think if the government allows this then it is okay.

    People are buying based on price, quality and for some products image.

    The products purchased based on image can be shamed away. The other two cannot. No matter what some will buy the best quality and some the cheapest. Government can't help with the first but can control the second.

    13. guelo ◴[] No.21185739[source]
    Environmental and human rights standards.
    14. leppr ◴[] No.21187980{4}[source]
    Was speaking about this issue specifically, but I'd be interested in hearing your arguments for the opposite side.

    From Apple's historically more oppressive stance against freedom of expression in their own wallet garden, and the recent actions against the HK protest movement ("legitimate" app ban, the present article), my opinion is that Apple is a less ethical choice than Android which is more permissive and respectful of user freedom.

    replies(1): >>21196069 #
    15. dpkonofa ◴[] No.21196069{5}[source]
    >From Apple's historically more oppressive stance against freedom of expression in their own wallet garden, and the recent actions against the HK protest movement

    I would love to see how you justify Apple's actions as "historically oppressive" when it comes to App Store rejections. Even the case that you specify in Hong Kong wasn't Apple's actions "against the HK protest movement". The App was rejected initially because it was thought to violate specific terms and it was appealed and approved within days. To try and frame that as Apple being morally or ethically deficient is really, really disingenuous.

    The opposite side is that Apple is the only company that's not actively selling user data and/or using it against users. Android may be more permissive from a general standpoint but even that comes at the huge, huge cost of a lack of privacy and a completely lack of concern for personal freedom. Even from a security standpoint, I would argue that Google is less ethical simply because they don't act on nefarious actors that they know about. Being permissive isn't the same thing as being ethical.